LOUDON, N.H. – Ask most drivers on the NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour about their excitement level for events at New Hampshire Motor Speedway and their eyes light up.
The 1.058-mile oval is the place where most drivers are seemingly always eager to return.
That hadn’t been quite the feeling of late for Justin Bonsignore.
New Hampshire Motor Speedway has long been a house of nightmares for Bonsignore.
“It’s always been frustrating coming here,” Bonsignore said. “Sometimes you don’t even look forward to coming.”
Saturday the long awaited dreams of ultimate success at the track came true for the Holtsville, N.Y. driver.
Bonsignore held on through an overtime green-white-checkered restart to win the Whelen Modified Tour F.W. Webb 100 at New Hampshire Motor Speedway.
The race was extended to 106 laps because of a late caution. It was the first career victory in Loudon for Bonsignore.
“Just to win on this stage, it still hasn’t sunk in. I’ve won some pretty big races on the tour, but nothing that compares to this I don’t think at all ever.
“It’s been a struggle here for five or six years now with blown engines and wrecked race cars,” Bonsignore said. “The guys, they gave me a great car today. This is a car that we destroyed down [at Bristol Motor Speedway on Aug. 17]. They rebuilt it. Within the last week and a half we got it back. A lot of late hours in the shop, but that’s what’s it’s all about in this series. And there’s no better way to reward your guys than to get them to victory lane in Loudon.”
Ron Silk of Norwalk was second and Doug Coby of Milford third.
In 14 career starts at New Hampshire Motor Speedway before Saturday, Bonsignore had finished 22nd or worse seven times. In 1,082 laps turned at the track before this weekend Bonsignore had led two laps.
“Like every year we were changing a motor during the weekend,” Bonsignore said. “It was draining. It just made it not fun. The times we wouldn’t blow up we would have a decent car and get caught up in a wreck. It just, it was one of those places where you’re like ‘Why do we even have to come here? We know we’re going to have bad luck.’ We’ve been working on it last year and this year again we tried a bunch of new things and the guys nailed it.”
Bonsignore started ninth and was up to fourth by lap 15. On lap 23 he went by Woody Pitkat for second and took the lead for the first time on lap 24, going by Rowan Pennink. From there Bonsignore raced at or near the front the rest of the way.
Bonsignore spent most of the second half of the event battling with Silk and Rowan Pennink for the lead.
On lap 98 Pennink’s motor blew running second to Bonsignore, setting up the overtime green-white-checkered showdown.
On the final restart Bonsignore opted to take the outside lane and on the start it was fourth place running Silk giving him a big push into turn one. Silk tucked in behind Bonsignore to steal second from Coby, but Silk had nothing for Bonsignore before the checkered.
“[Silk] gave me a real good push,” We tried working that out before we went green. He gave me a real good shove down in there and I was clear three or four [cars]. And he was getting good runs but I knew it was going to take a miracle move and I knew [Silk] wouldn’t do that.”
Said Silk: “I had a great restart spot in fourth. I knew I’d be probably be second coming off turn two there and it worked out like that. Coming to the white flag sitting second I thought I had a pretty good shot at getting him down the backstretch but I just got really loose down in [turns] one and two and lost too much ground to him. … It’s kind of a bummer. I’ll count that as a missed opportunity there. That’s the way it went.”
Coby, who had won the last two events for the series at New Hampshire Motor Speedway, knew his hopes were dashed when the green flew for the final restart.
“I got the unlucky bottom inside spot on the restart,” Coby said. “It seemed like all day that was not where I wanted to be. … I was on the bottom for a lot of restarts and that just hurt us. … The last restart, I was pretty convinced that I was going to be able, if I got side-by-side with [Bonsignore] I thought maybe I could rough him up a little bit and try to squeeze in but I didn’t get a great restart.”
With two events remaining, Bonsignore was able to cut Coby’s lead at the top of the standings from 20 points to 13 points. Coby is looking for his third consecutive series championship and fourth overall. Bonsignore is looking for his first title. The Whelen Modified Tour runs the NAPA Auto Parts 150 at Stafford Motor Speedway on Oct. 2 and then closes out the season on Oct. 16 with the World Series 150 at Thompson Speedway.
“Max points is what it’s going to take the rest of the year for us,” Bonsignore said. “It’s going to be tough still, we’ve still got a little bit of a hole. It’s one race at a time. So two more, on to Stafford.”
Timmy Solomito of Islip, N.Y., who is third in the standings, was ninth at NHMS and goes into Stafford 42 points behind Coby.
Spafco,Troyer,LFR,all with flux capacitors me thinks.Wish I could have been there to toast Melissa on a great top 25 with Liz.Two man race ahead.Congrats to Justin and team.Can’t wait for Stafford.
Where did gunning finish
How bout yhe dare stock at louden
I love beer
Congrats Justin, Billy and the entire team on a great win. SPAFCO race chassis getting it done.
Art, you missed a good race. Not great, but pretty good.
I hate the trucks. They sound like a swarm of riled up hornets, or R/C model engines. Really annoying.
The classic lead pack of the usual 3-4 cars didn’t happen. It wasn’t the usual lead pack of 3-4 cars, then the huge pack, and then the back markers. It was pretty much a big lead pack, with laggards pulling up the rear.
And there was lots of shuffling. The draft was life-or-death. If a car got hung out, it lost lots of spots until it could get back in line or get a drafting partner. A drafting partner is required now with the SPECtacular, SPECial, SPECious engines.
Decent race, yellows were pretty much isolated events, no stupid accidents. Sucked to see Woody and Santos go out, and for Pennink to blow up with three laps left. They must have blown up several engines this season. When the 3 runs, it runs very good. Need engines to stay together.
There was a close call on the front stretch where the 2, 20 and one or two other cars were banging and got a little sideways… could have taken out crucial cars.
The 2 is gonna have to be juiced up the next two races, parallel flux capacitors. There will be tough racing coming up.
The Long Island Gang strikes again. Popular win for the 51. Not just short track specialists anymore. The 51 ran top five all day. I don’t recall the 2 even leading a lap. I think all the lost practice time hurt them. They are the best at making adjustments between practice and qualifying. A two man race now. I still contend that the 2 has the trophy locked down but the 51 could make it interesting, maybe. I like truck / modified doubleheaders. NASCAR should put them together more often. I prefer the 1pm starts a little more though.
Hi everyone,
Hope this puts to rest all the big or special Carb, talk that has been on this site. Looks like the 51 got some homework done for Loudon at the shop this week. I was not there but sounds like they had the car to beat up front. I think if Coby was in 4th and not second on the bottom on those restarts i think it would of been interesting ,But Justin and crew did there job and they got the win .Way to go 51 team. Now to Stafford;
ALL I am going to say is BOOM ! THE 51 team and JUSTIN are on a roll and I don’t see that stopping till the championship trophy is in hand ! Nice win for the whole team….. I give COBY credit for a good run as well. Two man race for the title. my money is on THE 51….good luck to both teams…
Harold, et al., the rest of the field is NOT catching up with the 2. The 2 has been closely scrutinized. I doubt that car is running the exact same parts and equipment it was running last season or earlier this season. The 2 is being reigned in.
Look how close the field was bunched together… no break away packs. Perhaps NASCAR is getting the message that there was less parity with the SPEC engine and actually did something about it. Reign in the outliers.
Unfortunately I had some important business to attend to on Friday and didn’t get to the track until just past noon yesterday. Given I wasn’t there, I worked some rain dance magic and was gleeful to see that it put Woodward and his purple passion colored car on the pole.
On Saturday I brought the the nice weather over from Lake Winnipesaukee, but unfortunately I couldn’t quite defeat the demons in Melissa’s clutch. Regardless, it was good to see her run well for about 20 laps. I was in a happy mood yesterday and met plenty great people. Just maybe I met one of my RacedayCT.com pals and didn’t know it…
On a side note, what happened to Timmy Stolimoto? I expected a better finish from those boys.
Liz, Do you guys draw at random out of a hat to see what “reason” you guys will use to drop out of the race???…Cars do not normally stop racing because of handling…. Try Dare stock.
Let me be clear, I am not affiliated or otherwise associated with the 01 team. I’m simply just a fan of the two-time defending winner of the NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour’s Most Popular Driver Award. You should be too!
Ron Silk. Another solid finish. Dwr!
Reign in the outliers. ???? After all your years of being a race watcher you still don’t get it lol
The 2 was reigned in by the 3 blocking turning left for 20 or so laps TC would never put up with that
but the 2 did The 2 got reigned in by him and the yellow flag once by him he went right by the 51
and the 51 could never cross over and the 2 was gone then the yellow came out that happened twice
Let the 2 run the restart and you would have said he had the big carb
on again. It was Justins race congats.
The 51 can’t win the championship if the 2 keeps knocking out top 3s every race. Simple math. The 2 and 51 have finished bumper to bumper the last three races. The 51 needs the black duece to have issues. It should sell a few tickets though these next two races.
When does the most popular driver voting begin?? I want to start stuffing the ballet.
Facts Matter haven’t you figured it out yet dareal knows all,so I’m sure the sun must have been in your eyes!!! A tough year for woody and team
Yeah, and bonus points will be crucial. The 51 is 13 points behind the 2. The 51 has to be pristine, finish well ahead of the 2, and get the bonus points while depriving the 2 of the bonus points, and the 2 has to stumble really bad in at least one race, or just so-so in both races. The 2 owns Stafford this year.
We shall see, stay tuned.
Stuffing the ballet? It’s always good to know we have George Balanchine fans amongst the modified faithful!
Did their homework or have a crew guy that was on another team last year and gave them a pretty good set up out of another teams hand book? Hhhmmmmm. Either way congrats to the 51! I love this division! Some great competition at this track. They should Go there 3 times a year!
Liz, there are a few very sophisticated people here, and then there are plenty like Billy.
The 16 was pretty good early, but faded later on and couldn’t hang with the lead cars. Surprising given the racing interuptus to allow for generous adjustments.
The last riverhead race my son took my 5 year old granddaughter to the fence to wave and got a Big smile and wave from Melissa.She certainly is my granddaughter’s favorite but I still don’t understand how she wins with all of the good drivers on the tour.I don’t vote,maybe few people do.
Billy is correct, the #51 had the LFR left front setup
Liz, I would rather be remembered as a the defending NWMT champion than the two time defending NWMT most popular driver. When she gets a top ten finish in the lead lap with 20 cars still running then I just might believe in her!
nice win at nhms for the 51team and SPAFCO 2 cars in the top 6. way to go Justin win the next 2 and the championship.
Billy, another team’s handbook huh? You mean the crew chief from last year that had his own set up and didn’t leave HIS handbook for that team after they asked about it. You might want to fact check before you run your mouth.
Steve said: “Billy is correct, the #51 had the LFR left front setup”
LOL!!!!!!
That super secret LF bind setup is useless. Look at the pics from Loudon of the cars racing in the turns… they are all rolled to the right, meaning the left side is UP, raised, unloading the LF and preventing that stupor-duper LF bind from binding. At Loudon, the cars are turning on the end of the straights, meaning the cars are rolled before they even enter the turn. CONCLUSION: The LF bind is useless. It’s another fad.
Try this for just once: think. Don’t hurt yourself.
Did you ever hear about the Len Boehler ball joint coolers?
Art Said: “She certainly is my granddaughter’s favorite but I still don’t understand how she wins with all of the good drivers on the tour.I don’t vote,maybe few people do.”
Art, last I knew, the Most Popular Driver voting rules state that an email address can vote once a day. That means that a person that has numerous email addresses (quite common) can STUFF the BALLOT with multiple votes per day. Few people vote, some people vote A LOT!!!!! And I imagine some people are recruited to vote. You know, like aunts, uncle, cousins, neighbors, etc.
I think most normal, healthy, ethical, honest, law abiding, moral, upright, fair and reasonable people simply vote once and are done with it. As always, it’s the few that ruin things for everyone else.
Congrats to the 51. Hope the 16 gets its setup sorted out for Stafford and Thompson. More pressure on the 2 the better. The 2 and 51 have to race and not give an inch, while not making the slightest mistake. This will be a very exciting season ending.
Liz, drugs are bad… Not sure what planet you or Melissa is from but I’m sure it would have to be the slowest rotating plant in the galaxy. Handling, electrical, clutch, vibration… I think there should be an over & under on what will be the next issue. Maybe she’ll run out of gas next but that’s not possible when you’re only half throttle. Most votes doesn’t really mean anything when people who actually know racing think it’s a safety hazard for her even being on the track. She should be in a SK Lite and learn how to drive first but the SK lItes do faster lap time than she does…
Dareal,
have you ever been on a race team?????? Why do you even write things on hear if you believe the cheating is so bad and Nascar allowes special treatment!!! Billy should be very proud of all the hard work and shop time he put in setting up the 51 car.NASCAR IS REALLING IN CARS !!!! Were do you get your info???? SO what your saying that if a team hits on a great setup on there car and starts winning races they must be cheating and NASCAR will have to real them in. TEAMS race to win and to set the bar higher for the other teams to match. period
Dareal,In that case it’s a totally hollow and useless award.What’s the point!
the 01 needs to focus on the set up of the car and not the Set up of the Vote…..Shameful.
Art, don’t ask me, ask NASCAR. NASCAR made the rules for the Most Popular Driver Award, not me. The Most Popular Driver voting is just begging to be abused, and it is. Third World countries have better voting credibility than the NASCAR Most Popular Driver Award.
Art, Melissa can use those “awards” to solicit sponsorship.
Harold, how many decades has Modified Racing been around? Long enough so that every chassis set up has been tried. So long that what is old becomes new again, and again, and again, and again. So a new top secret chassis set up didn’t happen.
What has been a determining factor in recent history? There was the big carb debacle with the 36 & 51 cars a few years ago, along with the extra breathing capacity of the 7NY. Took forever for NASCAR to get a clue with those flagrant violations. Notice that those obvious advantages were brought about by power, and engines make power. Chassis do not make power. The 2 does not handle any better than the other cars, but the 2 has had much more power than the rest of the field. I find that very odd given they are using a SPEC engine.
What has gone on for way too long with the 2 has made NASCAR look like complete idiots. They are laughing stock, from Jimmy Wilson to Tony Glover and above. They couldn’t find the problem, they created the illusion they were looking, so they have no place running the respective functions or being involved in racing. The inmates have been running the joint for too long.
good fella …..the 2 and the 8 have bruno spec engines ….the 2 enters the corner ….rolls thu-the middle …and drives off better than the 8 …..same motor …same chassis ….its all in the set-up …makes the 2 look like it has more power …..you need over 20 h.p. and torque in mod to even start to over come a top 5 car and try to drive it
….not happening with the spec …open motor another story for another time …
just a fan, the 2 makes all cars look like traffic cones on the straights… that’s horsepower.
Now both the 2 and 8 chassis are LFR and they are sharing all set up notes like a team, or so it has been said. Both cars run Bruneau built SPEC engines. Both cars are not running nose-to-tail.
LOL, LFR shares team set up notes. hehehe…
The 2 and 8 can stick together in the turns all day, as the 2 does not turn any better than the other top 10 cars, but the 2 pulls away on the straights. That is horsepower, not chassis set up. The 2 does NOT exit any better or faster than any other competitive car.
Furthermore, if the 2 was able to get into the gas earlier in the turns, it would be using up the tires faster, especially the RR tire. It doesn’t use up tires faster. Actually, it has fantastic tire life. Because the 2 has much more power, it cruises through the turns while being gentle on tires, can get into the gas late and gentle to save tires, and then haul down the straight with all those extra horses. I’ve been watching and listening to the 2, and this is what it does. Then the 2 has far more car left at “Go Time” and can drive away from the field.
Both the 2 and 8 run Bruneau built SPEC engines, but if you knew anything about racing, carburetors are very personal. There is no such thing as bone stock, used as from the manufacturer carburetors. Carbs get massaged. It’s too easy. It’s too tempting. And there are plenty of horses to be made.
NASCAR should bring 5 brand new sealed box carbs and make the top 5 cars run them. Impound the team carbs. Jetting is the only adjustment, and jets are provided by NASCAR. That will scare the scat out of the 2 team. Use those carbs for the top 5 cars every race. Or make it interesting and extend this to the top 10 cars. The NASCAR carb that wins is destroyed and replaced with another brand new sealed box carb.
It’s not chassis setup, these cars have been around for decades and they run nose-to-tail through the turns, unless a car is struggling. But the thing that separates these cars is horsepower, and the induction system makes the horsepower.
Since the SPEC motor has been made available to the Mods, why have so many carbs been confiscated?
Crank up your smoke machines and polish your mirrors all you want.
darealgoodfella wrote:
“Furthermore, if the 2 was able to get into the gas earlier in the turns, it would be using up the tires faster, especially the RR tire. It doesn’t use up tires faster. Actually, it has fantastic tire life. Because the 2 has much more power, it cruises through the turns while being gentle on tires, can get into the gas late and gentle to save tires, and then haul down the straight with all those extra horses. I’ve been watching and listening to the 2, and this is what it does. Then the 2 has far more car left at “Go Time” and can drive away from the field.”
I can’t (well I actually can) believe that you wrote this. And that I actually read it.
You are absolutely, positively clueless.
What are your credentials again? Besides listening to Jeff Hammond explain things on Racehub? LOL!
you clearly know nothing about racing …or the mod tour …rick makahee that inspects the carbs by ripping them totally apart that is why the get bounced so they never make it to the track …there is a board with a carb ripped apart right at the scales …they have tech tools that check every inch of those carbs ….i was on a championship winning mod tour team for ten years …..i have worked for one of the top engine builders in nascar that started with the mods … have been involved in mod racing all my life ….i me be 70 years old ….but i forgot more about racing that you bench racers here ever had….sit in the pit stands in one and two at stafford during warm ups were you can see were they lift and were they get back on the gas then get back to us ….getting on the gas sooner has nothing to do with tire wear ….it means the car rotated sooner so the driver can point the car straighter which puts less on the right rear ….also a balanced set-up DOES NOT WEAR THE TIRES so he can go longer and be harder on the car …that is what the 2 does ….after 20 to 30 laps and the new wears off the tires ….he can still push the pedal down …even a tenth of second before the other guy looks like 20 hp down the shoot …
Yep this guy Good whatever is really out of his box now watching and listening and he forgot DREAMING of its not the carb he says the engine builder has special lobes on the cam and only lets NASCAR only check them this guy is obviously strange lol.
Joe Lajoie, you might have read it, but you surely don’t understand it.
LOL!!!
So goodfella. Where exactly do you get all this information?
just a fan said: “….getting on the gas sooner has nothing to do with tire wear ….”
WHAT?!?!???!?!?!??!
Tires get worn out in the turns, when the lateral acceleration causes the slip angle that wears the tires away. The RR gets worn out the most on exit when it is loaded by the lateral AND forward accelerations. That is when the RR has the most loading and most wear.
When a driver is pacing to save tires, he exits late and easy. doh.
Congrats to the 51 team!!!! Make the 2 team sweat!!!!
These tour cars are not midgets lol with all the rebound if you know what that is the tires don’t wear out with a balanced set up as just a fan said they heat cycle to the point of slower lap times or stagger up or down to make a car lose or tight keep reading here you might learn something.
Everybody has their opinion of why a certain car/team is successful. Some claim they think it’s in the motor. Some claim they think it’s in the handling which in turn makes the motor look good. The problem is when you get somebody like dareal on here who is too arrogant to just state their opinion. Instead constantly throw out conspiracies and accusations based on absolutely nothing. The smarter people will see through his “knowledge” of throwing out a few big words. He’s obviously a nobody. Explain your trunnion angle theories to us please.
I think they are sweating.This is way to close for comfort and Doug gets a little squirrely.He is tops at time trials. Smooth as silk,[no pun intended] but in traffic with the leaders watch out.He doesnt seem to have patience.If he can’t run and hide on Sunday it will be very interesting.
Don Barker is the best crew chief in the business! Hands down
The last thing the 2 wants to happen is race in the turns, simply because it can’t. Look at Loudon this past race, the 2 couldn’t race the turns with traffic, it lost in the turns, and it didn’t have its super power either. In close confines of a short track like Stafford and Thompson, without super power, the 2 is toast. The last two seasons, the 2 coasts through the turns and blasts down the straights. If it doesn’t have the super power to blast down the straights, it is toast. It simply can not mix it up as Mods do and survive, or not wreck other cars around it.
I don’t think it is a matter of patience. He’s just not good in traffic, close confines, without super power to take him away from traffic. He does not like to race. He likes to drive by himself.
Art, I would argue that Doug is much better in traffic this year. He has avoided the bad wreck all season. All he has to do is keep the 51 close by and it’s game, set, match. If he wins pole on Sunday he will probably not pit. Stay in front of any potential situations. Unless 51 has issues. Then they go for it.
good fella …now you can’t even read ….i explained why it does not wear the right rear more than the other guy with a balanced car that TURNS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CORNER …..been there did that …..how about winning a 150 lap tour at stafford never pitting for tires when the rest of the field did ………YOU ever own a tour car ….YOU ever crewed a winning tour car …YOU ever built a mod tour motor ….YOU ever really seen a mod tour race ?
just a fan, I was right with the 36 and 7NY scandals. I was calling for those situations to be stopped long before they were finally stopped. I was right, both times. Interestingly, many people were upset when the 36 and 7NY were finally bagged. Sounded like Trump saying everything is rigged against him. There has been a similar scandal going on for way too long. And if you really have experience around the Tour as you claim, you know that NASCAR occasionally tells teams to never run something again, without making a big scene, parts and carburetors are confiscated, etc. But sometimes, situations like the 36 and 7NY happen and there has to be a big to-do about it. Hey, I was right, both times.
It is one thing to repeat what you heard others say, another to understand. You have not explained why the RR wears, or doesn’t wear. You did say, ” ….getting on the gas sooner has nothing to do with tire wear ….” which is completely absurd.
Do you realize that you are implicitly claiming that the 2 is the ONLY car that is “balanced”. Do you realize how stupid that is?
George W. Bush was president, but it doesn’t mean or prove he should have been.
The 2 car does not slice and dice through the turns, no cars do. All cars are very close to the same in the turns, a couple miss the set up a bit and have a harder time in the turns, or get bad tire(s). But of all the cars that get through the turns with the 2, NONE can keep up with the 2 and hold onto the rear of the 2 on the straight, the 2 drives away. That is not turning capability, that is horsepower. The 2 is NOT and has NOT been turning and exiting better than the rest of the field during this period of domination.
Please reconsider your delusion. How many teams/cars have there been over all these decades, and you are saying that the 2 is the first car to come up with the dominating set up for each track in the same season? WHOA!!!! Do you have any idea how stupid that is? To be so lucky to get the unicorn set up for each track in the same season is really fortunate. I’ll ask Phil, Doug or Mike to buy my Powerball tickets. The only way a car dominates at all tracks like this is with horsepower.
And with SPEC motors, nobody is supposed to be more equal than others.
The 51 and 2 have to go for it… they have to go for the bonus points for no reason other than to deprive the other of the bonus points. The 2 has earned 7 more bonus points than the 51. The 2 can’t afford to just mark the 51.
Hey just a fan, I was right with the 36 and 7NY. That’s all the credentials you need to know.
Two things. The whole #01 thing is cute until she hurts someone or worse because she’s so far off the pace. One thing I will agree with is as screwed up as the tour is the tech is second to none. It’s like a nazi prison camp.
You just don’t get it good whatever and you never will like maybe it was about the big picture for the 2 car who you are obsessed with and oh by the way where did the 2 pass the 3 and the 51 while you were watching and listening??? In the Turns.
NH Mark,He certainly has avoided the wrecks this year, he could afford to,but I think he’s in a situation where push is coming to shove.He has backed off as of late.We will see on Sunday.I wonder if Preece will try to rough him up a bit.Last Thompson race he stuck it in there and made a three wide party in turns 3 and 4.That put Doug up against the wall.The 6 will be coming from the back of the field and probably be in with the in crowd at the end.Stafford is the place to be on Sunday.It will either setup a fantastic world series or it will be settled Sunday.
good fella …my handling and tire wear facts are facts ….i am not just or never was talking only about the 2 car …..heck he only won 4 races this year what’s the big deal ……in 1998 mike stefanik won 13 races …with the same tonys motor and carbs the 8 car had …the 5 car …the 16 car ..etc…..heck he lead over half the laps run …why BECAUSE OF A BALANCED RACE CAR ….you need to listen to ray everham talking about the 2 car last year at thompson or anything he has to say for matter during a tour race on tv you would learn your looking at something that is not there …your hillary clinton way of looking at things is getting old not only to me but it looks like the rest of the common sense people on here …..you have never revealed your credentials as to you wisdom that you think you know anything about a tour mod other that something from the national enquirer ….
p.s. good fella …..call earnest performance and ask him why the 51 is beating the 2 car this year ….you mite learn something ….thanks guys for the banter but i am out of this one ….
just a fan, can you define a balanced race car? No, you can’t. Therefore, it is no explanation. Do you really think that the 2 is the only balanced car? LOL!!!! Do you really think that all those other teams can not achieve a balanced race car?
Many cars are SUPPOSEDLY running the same motors and carbs as the 2, but you need to know that carbs are tinkered with. That’s why they are confiscated, sometimes several per event. How can you continue to deny this? You claim to be on the in, but you are clueless or a Deplorable in denial.
You think the carbs are all the same? Then run the carb from the 26, 68, 18 or other back marker running the SPEC in the 2. Let us know how it works out. LOL! Balance all you want!!!!!
i was out but i have never seen such a moron in all my life ….i could explain a balanced race car to anyone that could understand it but clearly you are not the guy ….your carb crap is just that crap …it gets thrown out period …..ever think that is reason why people like you find out about it ? ….there are things that happen all the time in tech that is let go and told do not bring it back but carbs are not one of them ask mike chiristopher …..have you ever even been in tech at a mod tour race ? i think not ….in your words maybe you can understand …. george w bush had no credentials to be president ….he was a moron with a name…. born with a silver spoon and screwed up this country more than any one before him ….but unlike him i have 50 years of hands on experience in modified racing working on REAL RACE CARS not a computer with facts and trophies to back it up …..you my friend fall under the same category of poor george w. now i am out …..lol
Just a fan, I have been reading your posts and I just realized who you really may be. Dareal, this guy you are bantering with has more knowledge and experience in tour modified racing than you realize. Take my advise and give it up while you are ahead of the game, seriously man, give it up because he will make you look like an idiot!
just a fan, you are not out, you are like Trump, a Deplorable, can’t shut up, don’t know when to shut up. Rudi Guilliani is telling Trump to not do anymore debates. Wonder why? Take Rudi’s advice.
But you did say that “….getting on the gas sooner has nothing to do with tire wear ….” which shows that you don’t understand that load wears tires, and in the gas sooner is more load. That negates everything you can possibly say.
I knew you couldn’t explain what a balanced car is. I knew it. Just like I knew that the 36 and 7NY were juiced long before they were caught. Do you still believe that the 2 is the only balanced car? BBWWWAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHHAAAAA!!!!
Well, what you think are facts are not facts. Just as Trump has his own version of reality and facts.
Party at Stafford!!!!!
Yeah, and add Preece to the mix. He isn’t going to get out of the way for Coby.
darealgoodfella- you are in LaLa Land. you are also arrogant and don’t take the time to thoroughly read other people’s opinions. you babble around in circles with your carburetor theories and along with many others on here, its clear to see your lack of credentials. Get a life and take a vacation from this site for everybody please.
Speaking of can’t shut up, doesn’t know when to shut up, here’s how to shut up dareal…
Hey Dareal,
How many races have you won?
Have you ever driven a racecar?
Have you ever owned a racecar?
Have you ever worked on a racecar?
You can say all you want about Coby, TC, and Ryan Newman, but you know what? They are successful racecar drivers.
What’s you claim to fame, besides being a legend in your own mind?
Darealgoodfella please state the scandal that you discovered with the da 36 im confused ¿
I can’t believe someone does not know about the 36 debacle.
So y’all still think the 2 is the first and only car to achieve a balanced set up?
LOL!!!!!
This is nice seeing everybody having the same feelings for darealgoodfella. Guy is out in left field…. in his own little world. dareal, you don’t take the time to read people’s responses and you have a poor attitude…. everybody sees it so give it a break.
Joey, so as the spokesperson for “everybody”, do y’all agree that the 2 is the first and only car to achieve a balanced set up?
I can’t believe that all those other cars over all these years never achieved a balanced set up. Shocking!
I’m shocked and amazed that it took so long. I thought that a cure for the common cold would have happened first.
Joey, please explain what a balanced set up is. LOL!!!
This is what you Deplorables are promoting, now sell it.
Go ahead, step up to the microphone. Speak loudly and clearly…
So, for your edification, a balanced setup is one where weight transfer from corner to corner of the car is evened out, providing maximum grip to each corner of the car. By balancing this setup, overall slip on any given tire is reduced. When slip is reduced, tire wear is minimized, allowing for longer tire life and improved traction in the corners. This allows for earlier application of the throttle in the corner, appearing as “increased horsepower” to the uneducated / uninformed. This balanced setup is affected by many factors, including track surface, weather, tire compound, driver habits, and horsepower, which is also affected by weather. A balanced setup on any track on any day is different, as usually at least ONE of the factors that affects it changes. A crew chief that can best manage these factors will have a car that his driver can get the most out of on any given night.
Satisfied? I agree with justafan, Humphrey, Joey LaJoie, and others. As you say, maybe not EVERYBODY, but certainly most. You sir, are an uneducated, pompous, arrogant fool when it comes to racing. Go away.
I thought this comment area was about how well justin done at nhms. not a bash session about the 2 car and all the i think i am a can drive a race car b.s.
I have driven a race car….Never won, had a blast, met a bunch of really cool, nice people…..Nothing can replicate the smell you get when driving a race car….The mix of warm fluids, exhaust, rubber etc…..Where is my checkbook????…LOL
Thank you, RichC. Very well put. And dareal, the 2 team has had this very well balanced setup when many others are unable to pinpoint. When the 2 driver comes off the track from some of those dominant races he has no complaints about the car handles. Ask drivers P3 through last and they likely have complaints. 2 team has had something figured out…. you think it’s the motor while myself and a large group of others on here believe it’s mostly the car. You seem to forget there are many factors in a balanced setup…. many of which YOU have listed on here before…. roll center, weight distribution, trunnion angles (whatever the hell you claim that to be), ect. Let’s not forget the level of knowledge and resources coming from their crew chief.
That’s not even the point though…. the point is that we all have our opinions. You seem to be the only person too arrogant to read other people’s opinions and share your own without the sarcastic attitude.
RichC said:
“So, for your edification, a balanced setup is one where weight transfer from corner to corner of the car is evened out, providing maximum grip to each corner of the car. By balancing this setup, overall slip on any given tire is reduced. When slip is reduced, tire wear is minimized, allowing for longer tire life and improved traction in the corners. This allows for earlier application of the throttle in the corner, appearing as “increased horsepower” to the uneducated / uninformed. This balanced setup is affected by many factors, including track surface, weather, tire compound, driver habits, and horsepower, which is also affected by weather. A balanced setup on any track on any day is different, as usually at least ONE of the factors that affects it changes. A crew chief that can best manage these factors will have a car that his driver can get the most out of on any given night.
Satisfied? I agree with justafan, Humphrey, Joey LaJoie, and others. As you say, maybe not EVERYBODY, but certainly most. You sir, are an uneducated, pompous, arrogant fool when it comes to racing. Go away.”
Whoa!!! Talk about a target rich environment. Where do I begin???
“a balanced setup is one where weight transfer from corner to corner of the car is evened out”
WTF does that mean?
“Corner to corner”? “Evened out”? What does any of that mean? If it is “even” between any two corners, all corners have be the same to meet the corner-to-corner requirement!!! LOL!! Did you really mean that? LOL!!!
And how does the left side weight rule come into play?
When you set up the car in the shop, do you set it so that all corners are evened out?
What corner to what corner? All corners at the same time?
How do you know it is evened out? How do you measure it to know it is “evened out”?
Most importantly, how do you measure it in a car in a turn at speed to know it is evened out? LOL!!!
And how does this balancing act take into account that the LF tire has a soft rubber compound and the RR tire has a hard rubber compound?
And how about the fact that the LF tire is barely skimming the track most of the time. Ask a driver… they see the LF of the cars in front of them in a turn.
And what about the turns when almost all the load of the car is on the right side tires? More so on the flatter tracks. How does this affect your “corner to corner” theory? High school physics.
But this is the BEST: “This balanced setup is affected by many factors, including track surface, weather, tire compound, driver habits, and horsepower, which is also affected by weather. A balanced setup on any track on any day is different, as usually at least ONE of the factors that affects it changes. A crew chief that can best manage these factors will have a car that his driver can get the most out of on any given night.”
I find it to be absolutely amazing that the crew chief of the 2 can nail the setup so often, just about all the time, to be so far better than the rest of the field, at all tracks and under all weather conditions, and no other crew chief comes close.
Care to explain that?
Go ahead, give it a shot.
There is something that can make a car better at all tracks under all conditions on any given day: HORSEPOWER, HORSEPOWER, and more HORSEPOWER.
Things like a big carb, reground cam, doctored rocker arms, leaky gaskets, etc.
So let’s look at some statistics, also known as facts. I know, you don’t like facts, too bad.
Take a look at the Pole Winners and Race Winners. Excluding the Loudon All-Star event, there have been 15 races so far. Of those, Doug Coby has won 12 poles-races, T. Solomito has won 5 poles-races, Bonsignore has won 3 poles-races, Silk has won 2 poles-races, and E. Goodale has won 2 poles-races. Out of a total possible 30 poles-races, Coby has amassed 12 of them, 7 more than the next highest.
That is alarming, and skewed. No way a superior “balanced setup” can be nailed so frequently. As you said, there are too many variables to line up perfectly all the time. But extra horsepower can easily compensate for any gaps in the setup all the time.
Some carburetors are more equal than others.
Brian,Shawn allows any topic on these comment threads as long as it is not obscene.Even disrespectful and stupid comments are allowed and heated responses to them also.There are no dedicated “free speech zones” here.All are free to speak their minds.Thats what is what makes it valuable.No one is forced to read anything here.If people disagree they can get it off their chest or ignore it.Works for me.
Oh, where to begin to educate the uneducable.
I continue with this with apologies to those that are either not interested in the explanation or tired of the “banter”.
Weight transfer balanced from corner to corner means that when the car enters the corner, the suspension will try to distribute the weight across the rear to both tires, offsetting the centripetal force generated by the turn.
Left side weight rule is a static measurement, which in a dynamic environment can be managed with shock rebound, springs, and anti-roll bars.
You measure the dynamic response to friction and weight distribution using a tire temp gauge. And yes, it is fairly obvious that the left front is the most underutilized tire, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t APPROACH better weight transfer.
And there is a reason that crew chiefs take tremendous amounts of notes and document weather conditions, tire pressures, spring rates, tire temps, and MANY other variables in pursuit of the ultimate setup for a given track. Those that do their homework, have more experience, and go back to history will almost always get a better result at a given track.
And finally, just to TRY and maybe educate you a little bit, all the horsepower in the WORLD won’t make a car that can’t turn go faster. But get a car to go through the corners, and it will be almost untouchable.
I don’t know why I’m bothering. I’ve tried before, just end up getting frustrated. My real goal here is so that other folks might realize what they are reading. Dareal, instead of mocking my post, why don’t you use some physics, as you say, to PROVE ME WRONG.
Oh yeah, it’s because you can’t.
Oh, and by the way, I absolutely love facts. Your STATISTICS are an expression of the result, and are facts. Your CAUSE of the results is OPINION, based solely on the movement of your jaw, rather than any real-world experience. Just to differentiate….
We know that race cars transfer loads from corner to corner. Evened out may not have been the best word but all 4 corners of the car are giving best traction (vertically, laterally, and at an angle) at ideal moments on the track. LF to RF to LR to RR. A lot of factors come into play when it comes to these cars. So it is impressive for a team to nail the setup so often. The 2 car cuts, rolls, grips very well. Even fast at the small tracks like Riverhead, Monadnock, and Seekonk where motor is less crucial.
Joey said: “When the 2 driver comes off the track from some of those dominant races he has no complaints about the car handles.”
Are you an idiot?
What do you expect him to say? Do you really expect him to say the car was handling terribly, and thank goodness the big horsepower was able to power through all that?
Of course the 2 driver is not going to complain about handling with his car when he just dominated.
What’s the matter darealdumbfella, stopped trying to discuss the “facts” to belittle and berate someone else? I answered YOUR points about my post, are you going to justify yours? Or are you going to disappear from this discussion. Remember, it’s better to stay quiet and let people think you’re an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Oh, also, on qualifications to talk about it? Again, I will ask, though I don’t expect an answer, what are yours? Couch cushions on Saturday afternoon in front of the tv? I have been in racing as crew, driver, owner, and official in Nascar, NEMA, SCCA, and others for over 50 years. I have worked on or driven midgets, modifieds, pro stocks, late models, mini sprints, and have been involved with road racing as well. Not an expert at any where near the level of the guys that work on the tour cars, but certainly have some knowledge and experience to BACK UP WHAT I SAY! How about yo?
Ya, when TC was driving over the field with the 36 and that illegal carb, you Deplorables were saying it was because TC can drive anything and make it win. LOL. And then when Newman was winning the Loudon and Bristol races, the Newman fans were saying it was because he was a superior Cup driver and had Cup people on the team. LOL.
Well, Newman has been a mere mortal since the induction system of his car was found to be illegal, and TC wasn’t so dominating after his illegal carburetor debacle.
I railed for those two cars to be stopped.
I was right.
I was right.
FTT, the 2 is NO better in the turns than any other competitive car. NO BETTER in the turns. The 2 can exit with other cars on it tail and nose, and the 2 will pull out and drive away once on the straightaway. Does it all the time. That’s horsepower, NOT a balanced setup. That is the evidence and proof. It’s hiding in plain sight.
dareal- Wow…. Name calling now? I was thinking along the lines of after and during the race too…. not solely in front of the media or microphone. How many people have used the word arrogant in reference to you? Completely unable to hold a civilized debate. I hope you enjoy typing your essay long conspiracy theory and statistic posts.
Good whatever you should calm down with the name calling You say the cars roll over and the coil bind set up is a fad you say a left front tire skims its self on top of the race track Your trying to school people and call them names? I won’t even explain it to you except I know one fact it’s a new world in chassis handling and YOUR not part of it.
RichC said: “Weight transfer balanced from corner to corner means that when the car enters the corner, the suspension will try to distribute the weight across the rear to both tires, offsetting the centripetal force generated by the turn.”
Be specific as to the corners. What corner to what corner? Clearly and explicitly identify these corners that you speak of. Not that it matters, because what you wrote makes no sense and it is not what is meant by balanced. But keep going, it is fun watching you thrash and make stuff up. I can’t believe that you think balanced applies only to entry and weight distribution across the rear tires. First off, entry should be so easy it is automatic. On entry, the car is decelerating, loading the nose, which is why it dives, while unloading the rear. tch, tch, tch, tch. If you can’t get a car to enter, it isn’t going to make it through the apex or exit. So therefore, balanced does not apply exclusively to the entry and rear weight distribution as you so described. Keep guessing, see if you can figure it out.
RichC said: “Left side weight rule is a static measurement, which in a dynamic environment can be managed with shock rebound, springs, and anti-roll bars.”
Do you know what the left side weight rule is? Apparently not. It is not something to be managed with shock rebound, springs or anti-roll bars. What about lead?
RichC said: “You measure the dynamic response to friction and weight distribution using a tire temp gauge. And yes, it is fairly obvious that the left front is the most underutilized tire, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t APPROACH better weight transfer.”
Sorry, but that is a terrible guess. Tire temperature is far from linear, accurate, representative, or a meaningful correlation with weight distribution. By the time the car stops running at speed to the pits to get the temps read, the tire temps are far from what they were when the car was at speed. There is a far better and obvious method.
RichC said: “And there is a reason that crew chiefs take tremendous amounts of notes and document weather conditions, tire pressures, spring rates, tire temps, and MANY other variables in pursuit of the ultimate setup for a given track. Those that do their homework, have more experience, and go back to history will almost always get a better result at a given track.”
So why is the 2 car the only car in history to “nail the setup” at every track under all those different conditions? Really funny how you and the rest of the Deplorables are staying away from that. C’mon, take a shot at it.
RichC said: “And finally, just to TRY and maybe educate you a little bit, all the horsepower in the WORLD won’t make a car that can’t turn go faster. But get a car to go through the corners, and it will be almost untouchable.”
No, that is so wrong. First, and obviously, why do owners spend small fortunes on extracting every bit of horsepower they can from their engines? Engine builders are chasing every iota of horsepower, far smaller increments than the accuracy of their dynos measure reliably. There is a huge difference in turning and going straight. It is real easy to go straight, not as easy to make turns. Real easy to go straight with lots of horsepower, and coast through the turns. Here’s a secret… a car does not use horsepower in a turn, but on the straight. Horsepower can overcome so many other deficiencies. A great chassis and lesser horsepower can’t compete at all. Look at all the cars in that category. ALL competitive cars run nose-to-tail, elbow-to-elbow in the turns. They are separated in the straights by horsepower. Pay attention, it’s happening right in front of you. That is the proof that you are choosing to deny. You can not compensate for a lack of horsepower with turning, but horsepower can compensate for so many things. Turning has limits, horsepower does not. Horsepower is limited by the rules and/or the $$$$ the owner wants to spend. And rules are made to be broken as long as they can get away with it, and what owners spend to find more horsepower.
I get it, you are all fans of the 2. Just like the loyal fans of the 36 and 7NY. Even after they were bagged, they cried it was unfair. Like Trump is already setting up for losing by saying election is rigged against him, it’s unfair and he is crying already.
So, will someone please explain how the 2 team allegedly nails the setup track after track, in any conditions, over and over and over?
Do you believe in unicorns?
RichC said: “Oh, also, on qualifications to talk about it? Again, I will ask, though I don’t expect an answer, what are yours? Couch cushions on Saturday afternoon in front of the tv? I have been in racing as crew, driver, owner, and official in Nascar, NEMA, SCCA, and others for over 50 years. I have worked on or driven midgets, modifieds, pro stocks, late models, mini sprints, and have been involved with road racing as well. Not an expert at any where near the level of the guys that work on the tour cars, but certainly have some knowledge and experience to BACK UP WHAT I SAY! How about yo?”
Rich, many people are involved in things for decades, and that does not mean they know what they are talking about. You haven’t explained or backed up a thing. You do not have the credentials or qualifications to judge others.
Would you ask Johhny Bush, Melissa Fifield, Gary MacDonald or all the other perennial back markers for their setup expertise? They and many others have decades of collective experience and expertise. How do we know you are not one of them, the non-competitive hobbyist? But all that collective experience does not have a chance at hitting the unicorn setup just once, much less race after race after race as the 2 does. So about all those back markers… you would say their horsepower is irrelevant, but they are always furthest from a setup that works? Give the back markers the setup the 2 is running and those back markers will be elbow-to-elbow with the 2, right?
So again, do you really believe that the 2 team nails the chassis setup all the time? And has the same horsepower as the rest of the field? Stop evading this and stop trying to divert attention away from it.
RichC, if you were the owner of the 2, would you be okay with NASCAR handing you a carburetor from from another car (10P or further back) or brand new (as from the manufacturer) and told you to run it the next two races? Stop evading this and stop trying to divert attention away from it.
Wow. Again you trash another opinion without ANY supporting evidence.
First, the corners I refer to are the corners of the car. And yes, weight DOES transfer across ALL corners OF THE CAR when entering a turn. And I never said that it didn’t.
Second, you are correct, lead can also affect balance, so excuse me for not listing EVERY factor that can affect handling. I bow to your obvious grasp of the design and engineering of race cars.
Yes, left side weight is a static measurement, and unless it’s been changed recently, it is 55% of total car weight.
Next, temperature is an accurate representation of the loading on each tire, and though they do cool down when the car exits the track, it still shows the relative load on each tire, as the tires will cool proportionally to their original temperature. If it’s so meaningless, why do all the teams measure the temperature? And also, what is this “far better and obvious” way that you refer to? Please educate us, oh wise and learned master ….
So, next point, “Why is the 2 car the only car in history to nail the setup”. Who said it is? Lets start with Richie Evans, then Bugs Stevens, Geoff Bodine, Charlie Jarzombeck, Reggie, Mike Stefanik, Ray Stephens, and the list goes on. All of them had DOMINANT runs where the won the majority of the races in a season.
Why do owners spend so much on horsepower? Same reason that they do in handling. It is a part of the successful winning combination.
Just to clarify, the Tour bores me. Very little competitive racing the last few years. Seems to be getting better lately. The SK’s put on a better show in my opinion. Not a fan of the 2 car, just hate seeing an opinionated bully that refuses to back up anything he says with facts dominating the conversation. I DARE you to present any FACTS that show that the 2 car or ANYBODY ELSE is cheating RIGHT NOW. And results are not facts, cheating would be one possible reason. The horse is dead, get off of it.
Bottom line I think is the fact that not only is Phil Moran is a full time employee of SM111,I think he is the best at setup and adjustments of any crew chief I can think of.It does seem that they have more HP than others at times.But then Justin,Timmy,Ron et al will blow everyone else away just like the high HP 2.I remember the lynch party of Woody and Todd at NH last year complaining that with all the full time work that goes on with the 2 Doug shouldn’t have to use people up.It is a fact that the 2 is consistently the best prepared car,but that doesn’t mean they can’t be beat.
I love reading the bantering going back and forth. When will you all understand that dareal is da man when it comes to the sport of modified racing. I have asked him more times than I can remember about his qualifications and he consistently dodged the question like he has to many of you. But lets keep this going and see if we can hit the century mark on this one!
Darealgoodfella, How is it you call out Donald Trump in a negative way when you rant across this forums like a DNA clone of him. Sticking to your comfortable talking points, saying the same crap over and over, ignoring repeated questions about your actual hands on experience on race cars, yet jumping right back onto the same rant you just covered. You’re like Superman and Clark Kent, I don’t think you and the Donald have ever been seen together. The difference is Donald doesn’t want to divulge his income tax data and you don’t want to divulge your racing resume. Maybe you should have spent more time practicing for the debate with Hillary more and less time shoveling crap here.
Humphry – trust me, I understand. Just having some fun showing the rest of the folks just how uninformed he actually is. And here’s my contribution to the century count 😉
SteveS – LOLOLOL. That’s awesome. Like the debate – A battle of wits with an unarmed man !!!!!
Of course, his highness Hillary is no better.
RichC and dareal need to keep it short. Know one really cares that much about what they have to say….Let alone 7 paragraphs of it…..Please.
Y’all evaded this yet again…
So again, do you really believe that the 2 team nails the chassis setup all the time? And has the same horsepower as the rest of the field? Stop evading this and stop trying to divert attention away from it. I’ve destroyed all your talking points. Now answer these questions.
RichC, if you were the owner of the 2, would you be okay with NASCAR handing you a carburetor from from another car (10P or further back) or brand new (as from the manufacturer) and told you to run it the next two races? Stop ignoring this, evading this, and stop trying to divert attention away from it.
What I have above is what I have been asking over and over, for months. And y’all try to sell your unicorn setup schtick. And just because I don’t fall for your mein-kampf techniques does not make you the victim because I do not submit to your badgering. You have been your own victim.
My credentials are irrelevant to this discussion, because no matter what they are, you all will judge them inappropriate. But my credentials enable me to ask you to answer the questions above. As every well-educated person knows, asking the right questions is far more important than whatever you are looking for. You have done all you can to evade those questions. Don’t need credentials to ask questions. You all clearly can’t answer the questions, or you realize how stupid you will look if you did say that the 2, and all SPEC engines, had the same HP, and the 2 performance domination is exclusively due to nailing the dominating setup over and over and over and over… The only car to do so. Apparently you are not that stupid and you know better to try to divert and evade.
Go ahead, say that you believe that the 2 has the same HP as all other cars and nails the setup every time. Go ahead…
This is SPEC engine racing, or is SUPPOSED to be SPEC engine racing, which is entirely different than the built engine days. ENTIRELY different. There is no comparison.
Hillary Rodham Goodfella, I choked when I read your discounting of tire temps. Since Tour Mods don’t
(yet) have the active telemetry of an F1 car, tire temps and hot stagger measurements tell us what we need to know as far as how the car is transferring it’s weight in the corners. You clearly are a bleacher creature as has been suggested by others. The good thing here with your “knowledge” is if the next
Clinton/ Trump debate is as stimulating as the last I can quick click on RacedayCT for some more cosmic racing discussion.
RichC said: “Just to clarify, the Tour bores me. Very little competitive racing the last few years. Seems to be getting better lately. The SK’s put on a better show in my opinion. Not a fan of the 2 car, just hate seeing an opinionated bully that refuses to back up anything he says with facts dominating the conversation. I DARE you to present any FACTS that show that the 2 car or ANYBODY ELSE is cheating RIGHT NOW. And results are not facts, cheating would be one possible reason. The horse is dead, get off of it.”
Go ahead, back up your assertion that the dominating performance of the 2 is exclusively due to nailing the setup over and over and over and over… Back it up.
Go ahead, back it up with something other than because you say so.
SteveS, help him out. humphry, you too, help him out. Joey and the rest of the Deplorables, help out. RichC needs help, lots of help
Some guy said: “RichC and dareal need to keep it short. Know one really cares that much about what they have to say….Let alone 7 paragraphs of it…..Please.”
The Deplorables have characteristic short attention spans. Perhaps that is why they keep evading what needs to be answered and replace that with their talking points. Just like their leader does, the one with the small hands.
Dareal wrote:
“Perhaps that is why they keep evading what needs to be answered and replace that with their talking points.”
Dareal, you’re the queen (you’re not the king of anything) of doing this. Whether it’s relevant to this discussion or not, you have never answered numerous questions of what your credentials are. Your constant dodging of a simple question speaks volumes.
Whether it’s this weekend, or in the event of bad weather, next weekend, why don’t you have mommy and daddy bring you down to the 51 SK modified at the Stafford pit party. We’d love to meet you. Or if you’re really old enough to get in the pits, stop by our trailer. Let’s see who really has a problem evading things.
Some Guy – Apologies. Get caught up in it sometimes. Hate ignorance.
DaReal – Short attention span? I read ALL of your rants, no substance, unfounded speculation. Could they be cheating? Sure. Of course they could. Could they be better at setups this year than anyone else? Sure. Of course they could. Do you supply any evidence to back up your claim? Any evidence of your supposed knowledge? Nope. I guess that everyone else on here, regardless of their background, knowledge, experience, or opinions, is a complete moron in your eyes. That, sir, is why your rants are drawing more and more attention. You are arrogant, unyielding, and uneducable. Go away.
btw – I’m done arguing with a brick wall. Sorry to insult the wall.
Anyone who thinks a tour modifieds LF tire comes up and skips along the track as you said has no business trying to prove at point to anyone.
OMG, speaking of domination, dareal, if I am counting correctly has 27 posts on this thread. He and Coby can’t be beat!
Would you please just shut up already you loser !
dareal says “The Deplorables have characteristic short attention spans. Perhaps that is why they keep evading what needs to be answered and replace that with their talking points.” You my friend are a hypocrite. And if you are not then answer these three questions that have been asked time and again by god knows how many people and you continue to ignore replacing them with your talking points;
1. Have you ever worked on a modified
2. Have you ever owned a modified
3. Have you ever been a crew chief on a modified
I eagerly await along with many others I am certain your response and a simple yes or no answers is all I want, nothing more, nothing less.
I believe Brad at Nort East racing still gives chassis seminars in the winter he should sign up for one that way he will realize what fool ideas he had he’s still living his dream in the 90s
So none of you Deplorables are going to say that you believe that the 2 has the same HP as all other cars and nails the setup every time, and that is the reason it has dominating performance.
Not even one of you?
Go ahead, say it.
Hey Facts Matter, Brad was the Crew Chief when the 36 was bagged with that big carb. So even he, with all his chassis expertise, relies on a big carb. LOFL!!!!! Need to know your facts so you won’t step in it like that.
LOL!!!!!
Cast , toe , camber ok most of you understand that. But who’s knows about Akermen ? Say it slow AK ER MEN. Lol and there’s 1000’s changes you can do to a set up. Driver to Driver there so different.
Good Whatever cute i new that, the point is chassis handling a left front tire will not come off the ground
and skim across the track lol.
dareal- It’s a package deal. But yes, I feel as if they nail the setup more often than others. If I was the #2 car owner I’d be fine with a carburetor swap. But they have figured out what’s best for that chassis and I believe the 2 has an engine comparable to the rest of the top 10 guys. I think they have the best driver/crew chief partnership, the best resources, the best funding, the best crew, and have the car setup figured out better than the rest of the field.
These are opinions. My guess is you’re going to continue calling names since I disagree with you. If so, that’s fine. Everybody sees your arrogance on here and most people discredit your thoughts. If your attitude on here transfers into the real world in any way…. then my guess is you aren’t very well respected outside of this website either.
Having Nascar hand out carburetors, something akin to what they do with restrictor plates, will never happen. The potential liability of a driver getting injured or killed from a stuck throttle in the interest of parity just isn’t worth it. If competitors start sounding like DarealHillaryTrump at the Nascar trailer,the closest you might hope to see is a test with that carb being used on another car for comparative analysis and/or it gets sent to the R&D center for scrutiny. I don’t know that other teams are convinced of this carb conspiracy theory though. Not sure why it has to be a carb, I think if I was going to cheat for horsepower, I’d look toward a camshaft. I don’t recall having seen a motor torn down that far in tech. Not sure that regular tech is equipped/qualified enough to evaluate it in the car. Certainly a lot harder to check for than a carburetor. If Nascar had suspicions, they would have brought some guys over from the cup garage at New Hampshire that have more experience picking out cheats. I know that post race tear down at New Hampshire sometimes had us pull stuff that almost never got pulled or inspect components in a way that regular tech didn’t/couldn’t.
If they really were interested in finding out how they stack up they could confiscate engines from the top 3 finishers or qualifiers in post race Thompson World Series and drag them back to R&D for dyno and inspection. They’re all getting facelifts during the off season anyway. If they found significant violations they could be dealt with before the banquet/points checks get handed out.
I think the only weight transfer dareal understands is when his butt transfers weight to the bleacher while eating a hotdog and Coke and watching a race. The only question is which cheek is transferring the proper weight, of course hopefully it is balanced LOL.
SteveS said:
“Having Nascar hand out carburetors, something akin to what they do with restrictor plates, will never happen. The potential liability of a driver getting injured or killed from a stuck throttle in the interest of parity just isn’t worth it. If competitors start sounding like DarealHillaryTrump at the Nascar trailer,the closest you might hope to see is a test with that carb being used on another car for comparative analysis and/or it gets sent to the R&D center for scrutiny. I don’t know that other teams are convinced of this carb conspiracy theory though. Not sure why it has to be a carb, I think if I was going to cheat for horsepower, I’d look toward a camshaft. I don’t recall having seen a motor torn down that far in tech. Not sure that regular tech is equipped/qualified enough to evaluate it in the car. Certainly a lot harder to check for than a carburetor. If Nascar had suspicions, they would have brought some guys over from the cup garage at New Hampshire that have more experience picking out cheats. I know that post race tear down at New Hampshire sometimes had us pull stuff that almost never got pulled or inspect components in a way that regular tech didn’t/couldn’t.
If they really were interested in finding out how they stack up they could confiscate engines from the top 3 finishers or qualifiers in post race Thompson World Series and drag them back to R&D for dyno and inspection. They’re all getting facelifts during the off season anyway. If they found significant violations they could be dealt with before the banquet/points checks get handed out.”
I’d love to see NASCAR do carb swaps. The top 20 cars in points do an inverted carb swap. That would scare the crap out of a few teams.
If you really are involved with a team in any capacity, how could you NOT know what is going on with carbs?
How could you possibly question carbs being the focus when last season, and early in the season, 5-6 carbs were confiscated at one race. There are/have been other carb related incidents and confiscations going on, practically all the time. How could you, and others that claim to be owners, mechanics or involved as team members that are in the know, NOT know about this? With all these carb confiscations going on, how could you possibly question the focus on carbs? Carbs are being recolored. Why would a team go through the trouble of recoloring the carb? Because it was machined!!!!!!!
You want to look at the camshaft? Yeah, there are indeed rumors, with good reason, about cams being reground. And how could you not know of the cam/valvetrain check on the 2 when it finished outside the top 5? At a Thompson race, the 2 finished outside of the top 5 and was still brought in to tech to have the cam checked post race. NASCAR used some sort of device that mounted on the head casting to measure valve lift, and had some computers hooked up as well. After watching this, I was not convinced of the reliability and credibility of the methodology, but at least they are trying. Not trying hard enough though. There are ways to get away with it if the inspection is lax and operators are not extremely careful. And I was not impressed with the tooling they were using, too much room for error. The NASCAR guy at the engine had to keep fiddling with the sensor used at the valve. I didn’t have much comfort in watching that. They are looking for thousandths of an inch and need to be extremely careful and precise. Didn’t see that happening at all. But at least they could say they tried. They missed the opportunity. The technique they used had a small chance of finding the anomaly. I watched NASCAR do this alleged cam/valvetrain check. The motor does not have to be torn down in tech, just pull a valve cover and use the correct tools and methodology appropriate with what is being examined.
And you want to pull engines to test? Well, that was done too. Three engines, two SPECS and a built were pulled after the Thompson World Series and sent to the R&D facility. Nothing was ever said. That means that the word was “don’t bring that back to another race”. I would think if nothing was found, it would have been made known. But given how carbs are being confiscated and even you and many other Deplorables don’t know about it, or hope nobody else knows about it, there is plenty going on.
Just as NASCAR announces tech violations a couple days after a national event, our precious Mod Tour needs similar media coverage to expose the relentless crap that goes on. Keeping it quiet and in-house is not working. This stuff that teams are told not to bring back again needs to be exposed.
NASCAR does not want to besmirch the precious SPEC engine program, so nothing is going to happen, at least publicly. It was pretty obvious that when the SPEC engine was added to the mix, there was going to be plenty of teams pushing the envelope as to how far they can go before they are caught. Apparently we still have quite a ways to go before edges on the envelope are found.
And all of this is brought to you by NASCAR: Jimmy Wilson, Tony Glover and Geoff Bodine.
So all of you owners, those that worked on a race car, those that crewed a race car, etc., have demonstrated that your own metrics and credentials for commenting are bogus. You do not have clue what has been going on right under your nose, or you have and want to keep it that way. LOL!!!
As we try to get this to 125 comments,I like Steve S idea for after the thompson race!
Art, that was done at the end of the 2014 season, when a built and two SPEC motors were taken after the race and sent to the R&D center. Didn’t help at all, actually, parity got worse!!!! The 2 got even further ahead after that.
Well, with the Stafford Fall Final postponed, we have another week to talk about the big carbs. Carry on…
I worked on the 2 car from it’s birth as the 50 car when Mike Christopher drove it through the second to last year Todd drove it. That was during the built motor days. I took care of engine maintenance, general mechanic and tire carrier during the race. I have only second hand knowledge of the spec motor, mostly which comes from conversations with Phil. I basically retired from racing 6 years ago and things change fast. Based on my experience, Bob Bruneau is a straight shooter, a true gentleman and not one to cheat, but a very clever man. I don’t know where they get carburetors from anymore, I know back with the open motors they were VanderLey-VDL. As far as being told not to bring something back, I don’t think that happens like you think unless something has changed. The only case I can think of for us was at Nazareth for the final race, we found a loophole in the rule that didn’t cover an odd intake and we ran well with it, there was all sorts of pissing and moaning over it and Ed Cox basically said I can’t tell you you can’t run it but it will create big controversy and it will be illegal for the next race. I would appreciate it if you’d use the regular manifold. We obliged his him and reverted to the other manifold and went out and beat all the whiners-The ultimate “UP YOURS!” There was another period where we had to pull the motors after Thompson. It wasn’t world series weekend, I’m pretty certain it must have been Icebreaker weekend. They allowed us to go to the shop to pull the motor and an official came and picked it up. They took three down for dyno runs and someone from our team brought them all back from North Carolina. One of the three that came back looked like it got dragged out of a corner covered with dust and filth-we were always convinced that a switcheroo was made but there was no way to prove it. They would never tell us the results, just everything was fine. Back then certain team owners always camped with Nascar officials at the track and it seemed a bit to cozy from the outside looking in. Always seemed like a conflict of interest to me. It’s easy to be suspicious when you’re not the dominator.
I stated my thoughts on the cam inspection in the car- as you confirmed it’s not easy to do until you have mastered the process. I’m not at too many races anymore, so I can’t really get on too much of a soap box about the goings on. I don’t know what the current situation is with carburetors, but I know if competitors ever felt someone had something cheated up, the trailer was well aware of it. One thing I do agree with you on is that the spec motor was only ever good for a revenue stream to Daytona. It hasn’t saved anyone any money.
I don’t miss the politics and I sure don’t miss the hurry up and wait routine, especially when Brice was running around on his damn golf cart growling. I just miss some of the people in the racing community. Anyhow, that’s my resume`, that and a dollar will get me four quarters. So what are the qualifications of Darealgoodfella, so many are eager to find out?
Dareals qualifications? A legend in his own mind Steve, pure and simple.
Da reals,
have you ever listen to RAY EVERHAM on T V when he talks about the 2 car. He never says o look at how much MORE horsepower that car has. NO. What he says is man that car rolls thru the corner and is hooked up off the corners these guys nailed the setup.This is from a guy who built, setup & won races driving these cars and appreciates them and a crew chief that can do that.
He knows and understands that when you learn something about the way your car drives or turns thru the corners you keep using it and make little adjustments to dial it in at different tracks. That`s how you run good at different tracks.
Harold, the motto in NASCAR is, “if you ain’t cheating’, you ain’t tryin’ “.
Do you really expect any announcer to say something like, “WOW, they really boosted the horsepower this time, they must have 50 or more horses than any other car in the field!!! Wonder how they did it and if NASCAR can find it.”
Of course Ray Evernham and the rest of the tool announcers are going to tow the line.
Harold this guy is in his own world not going to get any where with a guy who thinks a tour car lifts the left front tire and it skims itself on the racing surface as he wrote in one of his comments.
So you want to talk about credentials?
Be careful what you ask for.
You seem to think that owning a car, working on a car, working on an engine, being a tire carrier, been a crew chief, etc. are critical credentials.
Well, there are many, many, many people that are owners, worked on a race car, worked on race engines, been tire carriers, been a crew chief, etc., and they are not nailing the setup. The 2 car is the ONLY car that is ALLEGEDLY and consistently nailing the setup.
So you have implied and induced that the only people that know what they are doing are the staff of the 2 team. That is so laughable. bbwwwahahahahahahahhhaaaaaaa!!!! Looks like only one team has credentials, right? LOL!
Did you really mean to do that?
Please Dareal, Get with Jimmy Wilson and Tony Gibson this week and straighten this mess out before modified armageddon occurs. Have them give you the shiny badge and you can walk up and down pit road with a bull horn in one hand, proclaiming “there’s a new sheriff in town boys and girls” while waving a rule book in the other hand. (Insert Blazing Saddles New Sheriff scene here).You’re the only one that can save the best racing on earth. Please, please, please, get in that trailer and show them who’s boss! However, they may want to know your qualifications. Aww crap, I guess the tour is doomed after all. We knew it was too good to be real, Dareal that is. I’ll stop up and see Phil this week and ask him to trade carbs with Bonsignore ; ) But what if they still won? Would the 51 also have a cheated up carburetor?
SteveS, please don’t leave me hanging….Who was the car owner getting too “cozy” with officials????…..Or at least give me a good hint if you don’t want to name names.
SteveS, that is a perfect Trump impersonation.
Bravo!!!!
SteveS, are you sure the 2 team is the only team with credentials? LOL!!!
Wow, very insulting.
OMG I no what he’s going to say about the 51.
When did I ever state or imply that only the 2 had credentials. That has only been suggested by one person on this forum and if you run to a mirror, you’re sure to find that guy. Hell, I said my credentials would get me four quarters if I gave a buck. As far as I’m concerned, scrutinize the top ten to the last bolt and take points away for cheating. I don’t have a dog in the fight anymore. You’re the flapping jaw, spewing criticism at the officiating or lack thereof . I merely suggested you do something constructive about it, instead of whining. It’s not that complicated. We have no way of knowing what your qualifications are because you apparently are embarrassed by them or the lack of them-I just don’t get that. If your qualified, become an official, if not, you can bitch here til the cows come home and you’ll just remain an idiot because nobody here has the capacity to do a thing about it. It’s like bitching about government, yet never casting a vote.
When you and others demand to see credentials, and then divulge what you think are credentials of your own, as your “back up” to your non-factual OPINION on the subject that the 2 indeed relentlessly nails the setup and insist that the 2 does not have any illegal performance enhancements, that is when it was implied and inferred, that the 2 was the only car with credentials. Because if any other team had similar credentials, they too would be nailing the setup every time. Right now, the 2 is the only car nailing the set up over and over and over and over and…
Dodging the real question which was. WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS. Stop dodging it. Answer the question.
I feel the need to throw my two cents in. I am only a lowly race fan with a ton of experience being in the stands and a little bit of wandering the pits post-race. My racing experience is only a bit of drag racing years ago. That being said, the information here shows no PROOF of cheating other than OPINIONS and PERCEPTIONS that a car and team is superior to others, therefore they must be cheating. In a land of being innocent until PROVEN guilty, I am assuming that the #2 crew has been working their tails off to have a better setup than most other teams. I say most because if you look at wins (#2 = 4, #16 =4, & #51 = 3) and look at top five scores, there is evidence that other teams are catching up. #2 had a full season’s head start over many current spec engine teams and therefore has that much more previous setup info improve upon, which due to engine weight is one of the primary differences between the spec and built engines. Please note, this is just my uneducated opinion and perception.
It is appropriate, at this time, to make a comparison to our “esteemed” candidates for president. dareal is the Donald Trump of modified racing. Blows hard and loud, makes statements that CANNOT be backed up, and twists others words to undermine their opinions, while deftly touting his own as the ONLY TRUTHFUL alternative. Or, is he Hillary Clinton, constantly deflecting topics away from his own shortcomings to repeatedly accuse everyone else of incompetence? You choose. I just wish he’d shut the heck up already.
My comment was first of 122 do i have to be last?Have we broken any records yet.Does Shawn know what the record is?Were rolling along here towards 125.The argument isn’t even funny anymore but its kinda fun.Jim Smith thinks Fifield,McDonald,Byington have “no Business in the field”,maybe a discussion on this could get us to 150.Just my uninformed opinion.
Someone needs to send Dareal a link for some therapy…..Clearly there is a lack of attention issue in his/her life…..Good luck with that dareal……and Fifield DOES NOT belong in a Mod Tour car.JMO.
Being a “more is better” guy as far as field size, I wouldn’t want to keep someone from being out there doing the best they can with what they have. However, in the interest of safety, maybe there should be a minimum speed requirement. Maybe you should have to qualify within 10 m.p.h. of the fastest car if that is over 100 m.p.h. If the fastest is less than 100 m.p.h. then maybe a 90% minimum speed. That would still give some room for the low budget teams to compete.
RichC said: “It is appropriate, at this time, to make a comparison to our “esteemed” candidates for president. dareal is the Donald Trump of modified racing. Blows hard and loud, makes statements that CANNOT be backed up, and twists others words to undermine their opinions, while deftly touting his own as the ONLY TRUTHFUL alternative. Or, is he Hillary Clinton, constantly deflecting topics away from his own shortcomings to repeatedly accuse everyone else of incompetence? You choose. I just wish he’d shut the heck up already.”
Rich, Rich , Rich… your opinions are just that, and have never been backed up. So why harp on someone else to back things up? Being a tire carrier or whatever you claim to have been just doesn’t cut it, at all. You have no chance whatsoever to back anything up… none.
I do not twist, I point out the gaps in those opinions to show how they could never be factual.
But nailing a setup like that is just awesome. Over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, … They must spend their spare time at the Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods with luck like that.
For those of you that think other cars are catching up with the 2, think of this, and I apologize in advance for asking you to do something that is so hard for you.
Have the cars, records, speeds actually been faster? Track records have not been reset with the SPEC motor. So what “catching up” is supposedly happening?
Dareal writes; “So you want to talk about credentials?
Be careful what you ask for.”
Everyonewantstoknow writes; “Dodging the real question which was. WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS. Stop dodging it. Answer the question.”
Dareal we are all waiting for the answer and we are not being careful what we are asking for. I have a distinct feeling it will just be blablablablablablablabla! You can be a hero or zero here, 50/50 chance so lets hear it…………..
Ooops. My bad. I guess that my OPINION (clearly identified as such several times, and agreed with by several others as well) does not mesh with your REALITY (claimed as such many times by you). The fact that 4 cars have marginally the same success rates this season (as pointed out above), and that there MAY be alternative explanations for performance differences at different venues (as pointed out by MANY people above), must clearly indicate that the 2 car has an unfair advantage over the rest of the field due to cheating.
Excuse me while I go and prepare for Hurricane dareal, full of hot air and inordinate amounts of water falling on top of us from his whining.
Dareal, my “catching up” reference was that some of the other spec motor teams are getting more info to set up their cars and are gaining ground on the #2. The 2 isn’t getting faster but other teams are “catching up” to their performance. As other spec engine teams are making their setup notebooks larger from more track time, they are better able to get a good chassis setup under their driver for a given track’s surface and weather conditions that day. The setups that worked with “built” engines aren’t working with the spec engines because of the weight difference. Just an observation and opinion by the way, as I definitely don’t have the expertise or knowledge to call it a fact.
Against my better judgement i’m going to add to this dareal circus.
On April 24th Dareal posted “Congrats to the 2 car, that car is on rails. Extremely well tuned”
Then later, and in dareal fashion, posted many, many times that the 2 car goes down south after every race to be placed on a shaker table. So he basically agreed that the 2 car has found something in the handling that others have not.
That being said, again in true dareal fashion, he will blah, blah us to death with his opinion and carb BS. And no need to reply dareal as this is my one and done.
Fast Eddie, that sounds like one of the most reasonable attempts at a real conversation yet. I think you’ll appreciate this… since we can not actually get into the carbs and valvetrain and BACKUP anything like some idiots are demanding, we have to figure out what will cause what, what has happened and what hasn’t. Emphasis on the hasn’t. And the hypothesis that the unicorn setup is the explanation is also not possible to backup since nobody here knows the notebook AND if the setup is truly and radically different than historical setups. What hasn’t happened and what didn’t happen are very important. In engineering, the null result is often a very important result, if not to just eliminate options and leave the pool of possibilities much smaller. For example, if you play Clue, you will always win if you keep track of what rooms, people, and weapons your opponents did/do NOT have. So pay attention to what the cars are not doing just as much as what they are doing. There is TONS of silly stuff going on. Make sure you weigh its value.
But also keep in mind that the groupies, shills and others believe the 2 is what it is solely and completely because of the LFR chassis. And to that I say: BACK IT UP. Prove that it is EXCLUSIVELY due to the chassis, and no other change. LOL. Good luck with that and back it up. And then explain why the other LFR chassis cars do not have such a leap in performance. The 44 is a disaster, the 8 is the same as it was with Troyer, and the LFR did not work miracles for the 01. Interesting how people are backing away from the LFR explanation, and are now calling it “nailing the setup”, over and over and over, at all tracks under all conditions, all the time. LOL.
But when the first two cars ran SPECs, which IIRC, was the 6 and 51 at/or near the end of a season a couple years ago, it was a scary sight. It was a Thompson race. Those two cars sliced and diced the field and were much faster than the built motor cars in the turns. It was scary because it was obvious that in order to be competitive, a SPEC was the only way to go. It was only those two SPEC motor cars, and they dominated. Then a few more SPECs showed up, a few more, and now we have a just about every competitive car running a SPEC.
How did those SPEC cars dominate? In the turns. The lower CG allowed them to turn better than the built motor cars. The SPEC cars were able to maneuver in the turns and get around/under the built motors. But the straights were still pretty competitive. There was a race where a SPEC and built played leap frog much of the race. The SPEC took the lead in the turns and the built took the lead on the straight.
But now the whole competitive field has SPECs and they all turn nose-to-tail, elbow-to elbow. The 2 drives away with ease on the straights. Let me write that again… the 2 drives away with ease. Not only with ease, but as if other cars are in the way. Have you ever heard of a carburetor? Since the cars are all running identically in the turns, there is no exit advantage. The differentiator is the straights, and that is horsepower. The 2 just drives away.
Things are not that close for the 2 this season as some would like it to appear. The 2 had some bad luck and would have had a couple more wins, Top 3s, Top 5s. The failure at Stafford was a win it lost, perhaps others where it placed >5P. So the domination of the 2 is actually better than it appears in the stats and standings, the 2 has had some uncharacteristic bad luck, as crazy as that sounds. If not for some of the bad luck, the 2 would have the championship locked up already, if not a race or more ago.
None of this was or is made possible by being an owner, wrenching a motor, carrying a tire, refueling a car, etc.
Hey Tom, sarcasm doesn’t come through in this medium. I guess the reported shaker table work stopped when the rest of the SPEC cars were turning nose-to-tail and elbow-to-elbow. Clearly the shaker table couldn’t help the 2 get away from the rest of the field, so something else had to be done.
Dareal, I definitely agree that it’s not just the LFR and I don’t think it’s a “unicorn setup” either. I think it’s the overall package. When the spec engine started getting pushed by NASCAR again, #2 was one of the first to get one. They were also one of the first to get an LFR and I’m guessing a bunch of setup assistance from Rob Fuller and crew. #51 got the spec for their SPAFCO with a bunch of help from the Barry family. #16 got the spec for their Troyer which, although new, has been their chassis of choice for a while. Although all had to learn the engine idiosyncrasies, I’m guessing they all had a lot of chassis help. I think that gave those teams a head start to get those teams a little closer to “the perfect setup” to start with. #2 figured it out the quickest, hence their dominance last year. #51 & #16 are now starting to show results. I think #44 is having a tough time due to learning the LFR car AND the spec engine together, making for a steeper learning curve. #8 & 82 are getting there as well. And #20 & #89 have had some great finishes with built motors.
If #2 had a horsepower advantage, I would think it would have been evident at Loudon, and I don’t think it was. They powered by cars getting into and out of the corners like others did, but kept fading on the straights when no one would draft with them. Horsepower would have overcome at least some of that. They may have a little more power due to refining their engine package as I’m sure some other teams have done but when there are corners involved, I think the better setup is the bigger advantage.
From Nascar Home Tracks:
Driver Name Points Starts Wins Top 5 Top 10
1 Doug Coby 597 15 4 9 12
2 Justin Bonsignore 584 15 3 11 12
3 Timmy Solomito 555 15 4 7 9
dareal, Where is this bad luck that you speak of? If it is show here in the stats of finishes, then the exact same argument could be made for JB and TS, that they would be running away with it if it weren’t for some bad luck.
Here’s the thing for me. I could care less about LFR / Troyer, or built / spec. Everyone has the same rules to run with, and takes advantage of them as best they can. But the assumption, and that’s what it is, that the ONLY explanation for the 2 cars successful performance is carburetor just isn’t accurate. It also is very condescending and insulting to the capabilities of the 2 crew. I don’t think that there are many here. though there may be some, that are still claiming that the LFR is a better chassis than any other. It’s time to lay this one to rest permanently. Let’s get back to talking about racing, not cheating.
I’m out.
Does anyone know when the New Hampshire race will be re-broadcast and where?
RichC, the big bad luck was the Stafford race when the 2 was leading and driving away, lost power with just a couple laps remaining and DNF’d. That was a huge loss, or non-win. If the 2 had that Stafford win, they probably would have locked up the championship already. That DNF by the 2 tightened up the points. The 51 and 16 are nowhere near as consistent as the 2. The 51 and 16 are erratic, however the 51 is on a recent roll, has done pretty good the last 4 or so races, two of his three wins came in the last four races. Without his recent extra good luck, the 51 would be out of it and the 2 would have locked up the championship already. And TSolomito has had many races far out of the top 10, with an accident or two.
RichC, remember the NASCAR motto, “If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’ ”
Cheating is clearly a part of racing, otherwise there would be no need for all the rules and tech inspection. Cheating is disrespectful to the other teams.
Really glad to see you are concerned about being condescending and insulting. You sound like Trump when he calls out others for being rude, condescending and insulting.
Al,
It was broadcast last week.
dareal, Please explain how one more win, 2 FEWER top 5 finishes, and the same number of top 10 finishes in 15 races equates to more consistent? By the exact same logic, if JB hadn’t had overheating issues at Waterford in May or an accident at Thompson is June, he’d be right there as well. So I’m really lost here, how you get to that conclusion. 12 top 10’s in 15 races is erratic? Then, by that standard, Coby must be erratic as well? And again, never said that they WEREN’T cheating, just that there are ALSO other explanations, which you refuse to acknowledge.
RichC, you have to look a the bonus points. The 2 has earned bonus point throughout the season. And bonus points are certainly in play. The 51 earned 11 bonus points in the last four races, 17 points in the last 7 races. That is a HUGE surge. Without those bonus points that were amassed in just the last few races, the 51 would not be in contention. The 51 has a total of 21 bonus points this season, 17 that were earned in just the last 7 races, and just 4 bonus points in the prior 8 races. The 16 has only earned bonus points in 6 events.
Pts Races Wins Top 5 Top 10
1 Doug Coby 597 15 4 9 12
2 Justin Bonsignore 584 15 3 11 12
3 Timmy Solomito 555 15 4 7 9
The #2 has 28 bonus points, the #51 has 21 bonus points, and the #16 has 19 bonus points. Go look through the results and see that bad finishes really hurt, and bad finishes are not consistent high performance finishes. And some of the bad finishes were really bad.
Bonus points reward consistent high level performance.
You actually have to go and inform yourself.
I usually do not chime into this stuff, but erratic?
I have 3 wins, 11 top 5s and 12 top 10s in 15 races.
Worst finish of 8th at NH when we admit to struggling in July.
3 DNF
1 – Broken ignition wire with 5 to go running 5th at Waterford
2 – Wrecked with 10 to go at Thompson with one of the best cars in June
3 – Broken suspension part at Bristol with a car that was top 3.
Oh, and the 2 isn’t cheating! If he was, he would have 15 wins!
Well well 134 comments and now even Justin chimes in.Awesome! I started this thread by noting we had a finish of Spafco,Troyer,LFR.Enough said? Good luck Justin and team
“Oh, and the 2 isn’t cheating! If he was, he would have 15 wins!”
LOL!!!
Fifteen wins? Really? Exaggerate much?
Admitting to struggling and 3 DNFs, and then question being erratic? WTF???
Okay, one less win, three more top 5s, same top 10s, but 13 pts behind. Consistent higher performance is rewarded with MORE points. It’s all in the statistics if you look at them correctly, and the correct statistics.
Of the 2, 16, and 51, the 2 is the most consistent over the SEASON, hence making the 51 and 16 look less consistent, inconsistent or erratic. Just do the simple statistical analysis, or plot the data out to make easy to understand pictures. If the 51 did not pour on the coals these last couple races, the 2 would already be the champion. If the 51 was consistent with its performance in these last five races as the races prior, then the 51 would not be in contention right now. If the 51 ran the entire season as it ran these last 5 races, it would probably be the champion already. Not being consistent is the same as erratic. If the 51 thinks it can maintain the performance level of the last 5 races as normal, and the season prior to that was struggling and not characteristic, then we’ll just have to wait and watch it unfold. Good luck. All three cars have the potential to run very good, but some run better more often than the others, meaning some are more consistent at the objective high performance than the others, and some are less consistent than others. It is that consistency that ranks the cars in the points. It’s statistics. Again, just look at where the 51 earned most of its bonus points: the last 7 races. Seventeen bonus points in the last seven races and four bonus points in the first eight races. That does not statistically look very consistent at all. Bonus points reward consistent high performance.
Justin, you and Billy are doing an awesome job, keep up the good work and the best of luck in the last two races.
WOW, I’m exhausted….When is the Icebraker?
darealgoodfella: I think you need to see a therapist or brain doctor.
Now i see why Justin doesn’t normally chime in.
Justin, thanks for chiming in! You and your team have the makings of a great stretch run at the championship going. Good luck and continued success!
Art says:
October 5, 2016 at 12:04 am
Now i see why Justin doesn’t normally chime in.
You mean because he got “owned” by dareal?
sigh ….
Broken wire, broken suspension, and accident – called UNLUCKY not ERRATIC. Oh, and what were the causes of Coby finishes outside the top 10?
Statistics – 584/595 = 98% of the points achieved by Coby. WOW !!! What a HUGE difference !!!!
Give it up. You can’t even justify your own conclusions, never mind being able to contradict other peoples.
If this was the late ’80s, early ’90s, these guys would be racing for 14th place….One day soon I will be attending my last Mod tour race. The series is not 1/10th of what it once was. Time has not been kind to the Mod Tour.
LOL!!!!! Saying that a run where a worst finish of 8th was admittedly struggling? WOW!!! There are plenty of teams that would love to be able to say an 8th place worst finish was struggling. Trying to say that the recent run where a P3 finish is the worst finish is the actual normal? LOL!!! Good luck with that. Let’s see how long and consistently that will happen.
Clearly most if not all of you are not trained, or have credentials, in dealing with statistics. That’s not my fault. Just because the statistics say something that you don’t want to be seen is not my fault.
Blame NASCAR for keeping records and publishing the statistics. LOL!!!! Maybe you should tell NASCAR to keep all race results secret and never tell anyone what happened. LOL!!!! That would be great selling yourself to sponsors, you would have no record to present and defend. Just tell them you are wonderful!
Being a fan, or biased, does not help one win an objective, fact based argument. Don’t play the victim card when someone whips out the facts, like bonus points and when they were earned and when they weren’t, and proves inconsistent performance.
The 2 car has to stumble, er, be erratic or less consistent, for the 51 to win the championship. The 51 has to run consistently way ahead of the 2, and can not afford to be erratic. The only way the 51 can run way ahead of the 2 is if the 2 stumbles, and does not *cough* nail the set up *cough*. The 2 car just has to stay safe and close to the 51 and the championship is done. The 51 can win both remaining races and the 2 can still win the championship. That’s just got to suck. Hoping for the 2 to have bad luck so another car can win is just not very nice. The only way the 51 can win the championship is if the 2 stumbles pretty bad. Given how the 2 consistently *cough* nails the setup *cough*, far more often than any other car, that is very unlikely. The 51 has to be extremely aggressive to get the bonus points, and that will incur risk.
The 2 is in this position because it was more consistent, or less erratic, than the other cars. Why or how the 2 was so much more consistent is a completely different discussion.
It’s just statistics, not rocket surgery or brain science.
Think of the oath, to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That’s all statistics is. Tell the truth, which I hope is obvious. Tell the whole truth, which means do not omit anything. And tell nothing but the truth which means no BS.
You can look at statistics all day long, and make any projections you want, the final race results are all that counts. That’s why they hold the races.
A lot of things can happen before the checkered flag is waved at Thompson. Parts can break, drivers and crews can make mistakes. Teams can get caught up in others mistakes.
It’s not over till it’s over, and it not over yet.
Listen Rainman, you can spend your countless hours calculating statistics and posting essays on comment fields…. But the guy who has likely spent the most time racing close quarters with the 2 stated that he doesn’t feel the 2 is cheating. Get out of your little world. Nobody on this site respects your feelings or opinions because of your crap attitude.
Steve S I think Justin’s post spoke for itself.He certainly didn’t get “owned”.Maybe you can explain how a race team that was the poster child for consistency,hard work,and keeping their eyes on the prize can be argued by someone saying they’re inconsistent.Especially since they are in the hunt for a championship.That is what I meant.I guess a should have pulled it out better.My first post on this thread 153 comments ago shows that it has been a very competitive season in spite of all the disrespectful
crap that goes on here all year long.Justin may as well bang his head on the wall than “chime in” here.
It is difficult to compare today’s drivers to those of 20 or 30 years ago. Technology and the fact the current drivers start at such a young age now. Years past there was a lot more races, therefor today’s cars
probably arrive at the track better set up. There are a lot less cars in all types of racing today. But one thing that is sure the 99 was a past mod champ,and in today’s world he is just a field filler.
Art, my owned comment was tongue in cheek humour. That’s why it was in quotes. Should have included LOL I guess-sorry for not being clearer. I thought Justins post was very professional and to the point. He certainly was not owned, nor could he be, by dareal.
DaReal
Not arguing the facts about bonus points, we go into each race knowing how important they are, they have determined the champion I am sure a few times. Hell we even have a spreadsheet tracking bonus points. If you want to come by the trailer this weekend, we can review it.
I only even acknowledged this post because you said we aren’t as consistent as the 2, that is a fair statement, but to say the 51 is erratic is what isn’t a fair thing to say, and our stats back that up this year. We had 3 DNF, and 1 finish outside of the top 5 besides that. 11 Top 5s in 15 starts is far from erratic.
Also back to the bonus points, we trail the 2 car by 7 bonus points.
He has one more win that is 3 points
We both have led in 9 races
The biggest part we trail in bonus points is due to our qualifying. They by far have that part figured out and we do not. Easy to lead laps when you start on pole, and we are working hard to be able to do that.
Again no issues with your post, aside from calling us erratic, but come visit the hauler this weekend and we can review my bonus point spreadsheet, anything we can do to improve our team I am all ears to learning..
I am done here, but I will check in and enjoy the laughs I get from this site… Please resume 2 carb talk! LOL
So I took out my fishing net and I skimmed it across the track but I got no fish …
WTF LOFL and I can’t write xxx male
SteveS most of us are not professional writers and don’t do a good job expressing ourselves.I guess when I say enough said I really should do a better job expressing myself!
JB, I used “erratic” where perhaps I should have consistently used consistent, less consistent, or inconsistent. I can see where “erratic” can seem a bit harsh. No problem. Of course it is all relative to the 2.
Glad to see that you are not arguing the facts, and that you have no issues with my post, other than using “erratic” instead of something like “inconsistent”. I’m cool with that. For the record, and peanut gallery, it is important to note that you are not arguing the facts, and we actually agree on the facts. I agree with the statistical facts that you presented, they agree with mine. The facts are after all, incontrovertible statistics.
“There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.” — Mark Twain
Your overall season performance is skewed… you are doing very good these last 7 races, with that Bristol DNF, but prior to these last 7, not quite as good. Not bad, just not quite as good. Take a deep breath. If this run you are on started earlier, things could be much different. This should be evident in your spreadsheet, and obvious if you properly graph the data. You hit on the key stats, so you apparently know what to look at. The first 8 races where you collected only 4 bonus points, and 5 bonus pts in 9 races, must have been pretty bleak. The 2 already had 20 bonus pts by race 9, and the 16 had 13 bonus pts by race 9. That was quite a deficit and meant the 51 would need beyond stellar performance to close the gap, and the 2 needed to stumble. And indeed, the last 7 races have seen a sudden and phenomenal leap in 51 car performance. Must have found something? I do find it interesting that with all the collective experience and expertise, that things still get found.
As far as carbs go, you of all people here should know about what has been going on. Most here are spectators. You simply can not dismiss the attention it gets. It gets attention for good reason. Just because things are checked all the time does not mean there are no issues.
As far as qualifying better, don’t put too much hope on that. Within a few laps, the leader is facing traffic. You have to figure out how the 2 can pull out and pass like the good ol’ built motor days, like no other car can do. The 2 qualifies better because it is a faster car, for whatever reason. The 2 has won eight poles and four races. The 51 has won no poles and three races. Focus on winning races, that’s what earns points. TC said something a few years go that I agree with, and that was he didn’t try to win poles, just start in the top 6 and take it from there. There’s a lot of racing and restarting between the initial green flag and the checkered flag to worry about the pole and how it MIGHT affect points. Get your car as fast as the 2 and you don’t have to worry about the pole, it just happens.
If your spreadsheet has the top ten or so cars, and bonus points by race, summation (accumulation), and total points, you have what you need to show how important bonus points are, or were. Sounds like you have good worksheet. The Haves and Have-Nots are obvious. It’s too late for you to do anything about it, you’ve run out of races. The spreadsheet should also show bad finishes are to be avoided for they deprive you of points. Be thankful for low car counts, because that keeps the DNFs from being even worse, losing even more points. And keep in mind that points you earn are points kept from another car, except for leading a lap. Hence, the importance of high performance consistency. It should all be obvious in your spreadsheet and graphical representations. There is nothing you can do at this point. All you can do is hope for the 2 to trip up. And hope he doesn’t hang on to your rear bumper and torment you these last two races. The 2 is the champion, and the only way you will be champion is if the 2 gives it to you, it is their’s to lose. It’s been their’s to lose for a long time.
I want good, fair racing with parity. I don’t have a favorite car, driver, chassis, engine builder, gear manufacturer, brand of shocks, driveshaft, brake pads, oil filter, wheel bearing grease, engine oil, etc. There are many here that think everything is just fine and wonderful. And there are those that are not seeing things that way. Car counts would be better and owners wouldn’t be leaving if all was as wonderful as some would like to think. These forums are loaded with avid loyal fans of certain drivers, cars, chassis, engine builders, etc. and if you aren’t with them, you are against them. Well, get over it. That is not disrespectful. It should be obvious that I don’t care about that, and those of you that are bothered by that will have to get over it.
Peace.
Wow! This got more comments than the kid winning at Waterford. What is the prize for most comments?