Matt Hirschman (center) celebrates with family after winning the Tri-Track Open Modified Series Haunted Hundred Sunday at Seekonk Speedway (Photo: Jim DuPont)
Qualifying? Who needs qualifying.
Matt Hirschman went to Seekonk Speedway in Seekonk, Mass. Sunday looking for victory in the Tri-Track Open Modified Series Haunted Hundred and another series championship.
And he showed up at the track with a bold, and some might call risky strategy, that he made work to perfection.
Hirschman essentially threw away qualifying, took a provisional starting spot, then came from the 27th and final spot in the field to win the Haunted Hundred and the Tri-Track Open Modified Series series championship.
Hirschmanm of Northampton, Pa., knew going into the event that he was third on the list of drivers eligible for the one provisional starting spot available. He saved tires in his heat race with that hope that he would get it. After the heat races were concluded Hirschman was guaranteed that provisional and opted to essentially be a non-participant in the consolation heat.
“I didn’t think it was worth the risk of possibly wrecking the car like in a consi, which tend to be wreckfests anyway,” Hirschman told RaceDayCT. “I knew that I had a provisional. I wanted to make sure I had the opportunity to not only win the race but go for the championship in the race. It wasn’t worth the risk. You’re also assuming the risks of starting dead last as well. But I was more comfortable with that and I didn’t mind the challenge to start dead last.
“I know that because I won it’s going to be highly talked about it,” Hirschman said. “Had I not won it’s probably not even a discussion. But because I won doing it the way I did it … it’s going to be the big topic of the week. But I’m used to that. It doesn’t bother me one bit.”
Hirschman came into the event tied at the top of the series standings with Ron Silk of Norwalk. Silk, who won the Tri-Track’s Open Wheel Wednesday event earlier this season at Seekonk, finished second Sunday. Chris Pasteryak of Lisbon was third.
“It was a good try, we gave it our best effort and that is all you can ask for,” Silk said. “We just came up a little bit short and Matt was a little bit better than we were today. We will go back and try to get better for the next time. … Matt was definitely better than I was. I was a little too loose the first run so we made an adjustment when we took our tire. We went a little too far. We jumped the fence and got just a little too tight. This is a hard place to be fast at when you are tight. You are always turning so it is slowing you down all the way around.”
Said Pasteryak: “Matt Hirschman and Ron Silk do not mess up that is why they finished one-two in this deal. We probably were a seventh or an eighth place car. We had a really good pit stop and got out before anybody else. Then we caught some breaks with the right line. The car was actually good on the outside so we hung tough there. And we ended up third. The car was just good enough to stay there at the end.”
After starting 27th, Hirschman spent the opening stages of the event biding his time.
By lap 38 Hirschman was up to tenth. On lap 57 he moved past Matt Swanson for fourth and quickly moved by Keith Rocco for third. On a lap 59 restart Hirschman got under Les Hinckley III for second and quickly got the bumper of Chase Dowling out front.
“During the race we definitely obviously saved tire between the qualifying coming in early, but I elected not come in for the change tire,” Hirschman said. “The change tire gives you that added boost at the end, but I elected not to take it. In my mind it kind of balances things out. I had my original tire and I felt that I was going to roll with it and stay out there.”
Hirschman used a lap 61 restart to get by Dowling for the lead. Silk moved to second past Swanson on a lap 84 restart. A lap 98 caution set up a green-white-checkered finish, but Hirschman was able to hold off the charges of Silk.
“It had its risks and you know it required a little bit of a strategy play,” Hirschman said. “It had risks because but you started dead last, you still execute the strategy and pass a lot of cars. I definitely saved some early and I also had the option of a change tire and we left that in the pits. So we saved some of our original tires and also left whatever advantage a change tire gives you there. We stuck with what we had because tires always size up differently and you never know.
“There is so much that goes into this. The strategy and how I executed it will be what is talked about but there really is so much that goes into it. The weeks of preparation and the thought that goes into it.”
Unofficial Finishing Order of the Tri-Track Open Modified Series Haunted Hundred At Seekonk Speedway
1. Matt Hirschman
2. Ron Silk
3. Chris Pasteryak
4. Chase Dowling
5. Anthony Sesley
6. Les Hinckley
7. Brian Robie
8. Anthony Nocella
9. Todd Patnode
10. Keith Rocco
11. Dana DiMatteo
12. Richard Savary
13. Rob Richardi
14. Andrew Molleur
15. Danny Cugini
16. Calvin Carroll
17. Colbey Fournier
18. Andy Jankowiak
19.Brad Babb
20. Matt Swanson
21. Zane Zeiner
22. Matt Galko
23. Carl Medeiros Jr
24. Bryan Narducci
25. Sam Rameau
26. Rob Murphy
27. Dylan Izzo
So Matt admits to not racing to take a provisional. He drew a bad number so had to start last in his heat. I guess He only gets a vibration when he has a bad draw in a heat race and has to run the consi. And magically it’s all fixed for the race. And he’s 2/10s quicker then the field. Not a bad deal when your father in law owns the series. congrats to Ronnie for actually showing up and racing today.
And no one can figure out why NOBODY cares about this series. They are a bunch of cheated up cars with no tech. Want to impress me….. go win CONSISTANTLY on the tour. Until that I’m not interested. That’s exactly why the big dogs on the tour dont waste their time. 51-2-15-6 are all on jack stands.
Honestly I can see why people would be upset. It was clear the 60 was saving tires all night long. Bad draw in heat pull in after 4 laps. Oh lets put in a real effort in the consi, nope pull in after 2 laps in which his fastest lap was 2 seconds slower than most the field. He had 6 laps, most at a slower than competitive speed, on his tires at the start of the feature when everyone else had 15 to 30 laps. Miraculously the car is fine the second half of the feature after all the tire saving. I guess he knew he would get a provisional and used that to his advantage. There should be a rule that the provisional goes to someone who tries to race in, not save his tires. Someone that gets into an accident or spun. Ronnie Silk finished second and didn’t even go to victory lane for an interview. I guess if it isn’t against the rules, you use the rules to your advantage. Hirchman certainly did today. Now who would have got the provisional if both silk and Hirschman left their cars on jack stands during the qualifying sessions. They were tied for points going in to todays race. Even with this strategy, I thought it was a good show.
Not Interested, your right – might not be the best cars money you can buy like u stated but best Modified racing series. I don’t agree having a provisional, but I like the open competition as u pointed out.
Just read the rules and did not see anything about provisionals. What qualifies for a provisional? I would think that would be covered somewhere in the rules so everyone has the same opportunity to make the decision on their strategy.
He pulled the same crap Tommy Barrett use to do in the MRS. It is interesting how he didn’t have to run the B-Main either. Between the #60 pulling that crap and the same few cars causing more than 50% of the cautions from heats through to the main feature, it put a huge black eye on a rather good race day. You had two cars in Barrett and Perry who put all their effort in to make the race through three separate qualifying races that were good enough to make he show but because they got bad draws they were left out . Then you have this guy half speed run 11 out of 30 laps in his races and didn’t do the last 20 lap B-main race and he makes the show, Embarrassing.
The Tri Track races are the best modified shows. As a big modified tour fan most of their races are not that great. Have not seen a real decent race at Stafford in a very long time. Thompson world series was not the best feature either I would take in a Tri Track show anyday over the modified tour shows and I go to them all. Seekonk had a huge draw of cars and nice crowd. . Looks like everyone is upset that the #60 car outsmarts everyone else. Ronnie Silk admitted that the #60 car was a little better than him. No sour grapes from him. Ronnie is a class act for sure.
The B-Main had nothing to do with qualifying or starting positions. They stated all along the B-main was going to be for the cars that did qualify for the Haunted 100 so they could take home some extra money. It was literally explained for several minutes over the PA system. I am not sure how anyone who was there could not figure that out. Something similar was done one of the times the Tri-Track series raced at Lee.
Sounds like Matt knew the rules going in and was pretty smart about it. I give him a lot of credit for working the rules to his advantage then executing from the last place starting position and winning the race!
All these people anonymously complaining now is just sour grapes! He knew the rules and took advantage of the situation. That is called just being smart and crafty in my book. Now that the race is over I know what all the haters will say but what if asked ahead of time would you rather start on the pole for the race after winning the heat race or you can start last with fresh tires? I’ll bet most would say I’ll be safe and take the pole shot.
Wow. So that’s what they call tire management.
Apparently you didn’t go to the ROC at Oswego Speedway, a tour race !!!
Tire conservation is not a new strategy. I remember a MRS race at Lee where a similar strategy was implemented. The first and second place car must have got together before the heat and decided to run 3/4 speed side by side for the duration of the heat. No one could get by them. It looked like they were under caution doing parade laps. if I remember they finished 1st and 2nd. MRS also has or had a rule where the winner of the last event had to start last in the next event, I am not sure if its still in used. Effectively making a good heat race finish invalid. The drivers who knew they were starting in the back no matter where they finished would just ride around in the back of the heat saving the equipment, The strategy works when you are assured a starting spot, either don’t have more than a full field or are assured a provisional.
I believe MRS started giving out points for heats and or running double features to try to combat the tire saving strategy at LEE. I am not sure which other tracks are really hard on tires but know tire wear at LEE is an issue. Everyone in the stands wants heats to determine starting line ups as they are more entertaining than time trials. When drivers are assured a starting spot you may get some of these strategies at times. Even with the odd race decided by this type of strategy I will take heats over a stop watch every time .
The more I think about it, the more I am OK with the strategy Matt Hirschman used at Seekonk. Isnt racing all about finding the loop hole in the rules and exploiting it to your advantage. That is exactly what happened here. You should be upset at the series rules that allow such a strategy to occur. There were certainly disadvantages to starting last in the feature he could have gotten tangled up in someone elses mess ending his day.
did the other competitors say tire wear was the reason they lost ? bring a softer compound or run more laps.. stop the wining money matt phoned it and owned it !!! stop taking about cars that were NOT there .. they could have run and chose not to.. guess 10 grand isn’t rich enough ??
The guy went around the 25 for the lead like he was lapping a slow car. Silk gets to him and has the fresher tire and 60 leaves him in the dust. That car has 2 tenths over everybody when ever he needs it at every track it goes to. Something is in that car, really tight gear ratios in tranny, traction assist, motor is big, but nobody pulls it apart to find out. Turkey Derby needs to tear him down before the race or tell him hes not allowed to enter. The minute he got in the top 4 people were headed to the exits, its bad for buisness.
We used to run a last chance B feature, and the winner always advanced to the feature. Did that for three years ( and during those three years, also sometimes put in a promoters option) Last year and this year, went to the provisional spot for the 27th spot. This year , past winners of our races and those who attended all races last year were given a provisional. So going into Seekonk, Patnode was the car at the top of the list for the provisional, Silk was 2nd, Hirschman was third. Patnode and Silk did not need a provisional, and Hirschman used it. Earlier this year, Barrett and Kievman used them ( and you only get one per year) Comparing the tire wear from Lee to Seekonk- two total different tracks. As Matt showed yesterday, and Coby and Savary and a few others.. you can win Seekonk without a tire change. Of late, changing a tire doesn’t seem to get you the advantage to come back to the front. Though Silk and Hinckley did come thru nicely with that new right rear. Racing is a gamble, on many levels, and this time the gamble paid off for Hirschman. Luck of the draw in heats will keep guys away from entering a Tri track race, and the number you draw can totally influence your day. 42 cars attempted to qualify for this race via 4 heat races. We even got to have a non qualifiers race. with the winner of that race Russ Hersey, taking home 1000 extra bucks. Thank you Red Roof Inn for supporting our efforts with that. And thanks to Wayne Coats and the Racing Guys for the extra 300/200 to the 2nd and 3rd spot in the non qualifiers race.
Once again Matt Hirshman proved that he is one of the best asphalt modified drivers of the current era. The whole goal of racing is to reach the checkered flag first. Each team is free to set up and execute their own strategy. Matt just does it better than almost anyone on a consistent basis. The provisional procedure was listed on the race rules way in advance of the event and Matt was eligible for a provisional and used it to his advantage. The result – he walked away with $13,000.00. Haters can hate but the results don’t lie.
I get the approval of the playing possum strategy Barrett used in the second Stafford open and what Hirschman may have done. I also get the fact that competitors have different goals then fans and might tend to justify the strategy more readily. I don’t get fans approval however. Not in the Hirschman episode specifically but admiring those clever enough to use the strategy.
Seems to me the goal of racing is to attract fans. More fans, bigger audiences, bigger purses and so it goes. To get more fans you need to entertain them by doing your part to put on the show. The show involves racing heats. Playing possum may be legal if the rules allow it but isn’t it breaking an unwritten agreement between fans and competitors? We come to see you race including heats and you at least pretend to try. Would we see it as being clever if it became a common occurrence every Friday night?
Ticked me off when Barrett cruised around the track a half lap down. I just think it’s uncool and a little sad you have to rule up to discourage it.
It was very clever on Hirschmans part. But it just seems really unsportsmanlike. Good show regardless will be back next year.
Jim thanks for all you do for the modified division it can be a thankless job as for Matt and his father I’ve said it before the best. If Matt would have gotten in a wreck starting in the back everyone would be saying what was he thinking they treat it like a business period.
Yawn. There’s no driver or car that’s been through tech any more than Hirschman the past 10 years. With every series-Whelen, Tri Track, MRS, RoC, open shows, local tracks. You don’t win over a hundred races and not get torn down, in every form or fashion. He’s done the same thing in the red 60, white 59, orange 59, black 60, Horn 50..on and on. His dad has no issue winning races and titles all over the Northeast in the black 48, all out of the same shop with the same person turning the wrenches. You can say its the car, but obviously you have a blind eye to the big picture, while majority of the sport know where the magic is-in their brains and in their right foot.
Doug, great points
thank you!!
I do not pay to see people to turtle around I pay to see people race , heat race or not . Hirschman is not a real racer if he is that good he should of raced in his heat like everybody else ,
Bring that same red car he ran at seekonk to a tour race without changing anything and see how far it gets in tech. He will be packing up before most people get their trailers unloaded. The black 60 is tour legal and it shows when he races. He’s a average racer. He won at Oswego where he probably has 20 times the starts as all the other competitors. And from all accounts of people that were there. A jumped final restart.
Nice try. He has, check your past tour history. Look at the results and track record of any cars coming out of that shop, either driver, where they prep and setup those cars. 2 Whelen Tour championships and race wins in about every major mod race from Maine to Florida, Whelen Tour or otherwise. If being an “average racer” means being in postrace tech more in a partial season than guys who finish top 5 in points and race the full season, then that’s pretty impressive. But on the other hand, how can he compete with those guys on tracks where they have 200 times the laps he does, using your logic? Must stay pretty busy at that shop swapping out all those cheater parts to all the other cars he wins in as well, but you mysteriously skipped that part too.. Yawn…
Just another smoke and mirrors deal strange the red 60 car could not borrow a motor from The Black tour car and run NH for 30k to win.
Taking a provisional and not having to race in the B Main just doesn’t seem right. I thought a provisional was to get you to the show not to the front of the line.
Sorry man, but that was a sad display of a competitor. I agree with the provisional, but you have to make them race for it. I had no problem when Barrett got it at Claremont, he ran hard, used up his car but had bad luck. But when you run at half speed for 6 laps, while others have 15 to 30 laps of hard racing on there rubber, that’s just BS. You can win with honor, or you can win looking like a scumbag, you choose how you want to be viewed. Jim, please change this rule, and please change the draw crap. Yuo have the top three guys in practice times in Hirshmann, Silk, and Hinckley all drawing bad for their heats, while the F16 who can’t get out of his own way drawing 1st. What’s the sense of trying to hot lap the practice.
Well why would he not just run the black car in that race then, why swap motors? Plus you don’t just simply swap out a built for a spec, but surely you knew that. Next year maybe you can drum up all the extra money it takes to run that event, I’m sure Matt would appreciate the sponsorship. Everyone has no problem telling Matt where he should or shouldn’t race, but mysteriously don’t want to put their money where their mouth is and pay for it. Do the research what it costs to run a race like that versus what it costs to run say the $10k to win at Seekonk, but it’s easier to talk trash than actually take time to research numbers. That place should have been crawling with cars for $30k if it was as easy as you make it seem, where were all the other Modifieds at? Or maybe talk to the flock of ex WMT owners who don’t race the Tour anymore why that is, and get an idea what it costs to field a competitive car at any race, much less that one at NH. I’ll be waiting for your response that includes actual numbers.
I didn’t know they started the provisional at the “front of the line” on the pole? I thought it said Matt started 27th, in last. Someone must be confused.
Gee X ever wonder why Matt doesn’t run the Whelen tour? He has talent for sure, but why isn’t he in a car then? I’ll tell you why. Because he was indoctrinated to believe that he should be paid to run a car, and not bring anything to the car on his own. He even charged a car owner to put his own seat in a car that they let him ride. Oh i forgot, mommy will provide cookies and brownies if you let me race your 70k race car. Oh and I stand by my statement. You could win with honor, or looking like a scumbag. I’d rather finish 5th, with honor.
Thank you for that statement, because you just proved to anyone in the sport and anyone who has ever dealt with the Hirschman’s how clueless you really are. You must be a huge fan of all the hacks in the higher series who bring Daddy’s checkbook and no talent to back it up, because that’s what you expect all drivers to do? Matt to come and pay all the bills and get nothing in return. He does that, foots the bills on his own car, races what he can afford to, and does it as a business. The WMT is a rich mans game, ask any owner past or present, which obviously Matt doesn’t fall into that category. You can call Matt whatever names you’d like, but again, ask anyone in the garage what the Hirschman name has for reputation. You’re mad because Matt used strategy to win the race, where is the uproar that Silk had to dump Barrett to transfer in his heat, where if he didn’t Hirschman may not have been able to use that provisional. But that’s qualifying with honor I suppose in your book. Finally, I suppose most people on here as well will take your comment poking fun that the Hirschman’s do this racing thing as a family, always have, as way more “scumbag” than anything Matt did this weekend, so nice job showing your true colors-keep it classy.
WMT Stats 97 starts and 3 Wins for winning percentage of 3.2%. Big Red 60 has 85% winning percentage or higher. If Matt was the Magic it would go with him on the Tour. I agree with others you cant go from Great to average and back to great all during same time Span. All the legends in modified racing were never this dominant, guys beat them and they beat each other. I have been to every single Tri Track Race ever, I have seen that Car only passed in a Race twice! Wrecks and damaged don’t count.
Go back and figure out the stats on the WMT races that he prepared his own car, like he did with his dad’s 48 championship efforts. Part of what makes Matt great is the prep he does pre race at the shop when he is hands on with the setup. Just with the black car alone, 8 races, 4 poles, a win, 6 top fives, 7 top 10s. Only blemish was getting wrecked while running up front at Myrtle Beach. I’d say that’s pretty fair for a part time team. I’d bet there is a lot of full time teams on the tour that would like to match those “average” stats. And you must have missed some of the action if you only saw that red car get passed twice, I’ve only been to 2 Tri Track races, and I saw him fade at Star a few years ago almost out of the top 10, and back up at Claremont earlier this year, so I’d say your numbers are a little skewed.
X, I agree with you on several things. The WMT is a joke for the payouts, and why any car owner would run that? Spend 200k to make 50k, LOL. Yeah that sounds great. Also, I agree that Silk dumped Barrett. It was a joke that he didn’t get sent back to the rear. Silk has become a total paid hack. He has become dirty. So I would have to ask tri track folks, why wasn’t he sent to the rear of the heat? It was blatantly obvious. I think they just wanted to set up drama for the championship. And I think Matt has great talent, but in this instance, I just can’t agree that the right thing was done. Within the stupid rules, yup, but not honorable at all.
Now I can respect that post Knuckles. Unfortunately in racing sometimes you have to play the hand you are dealt. If Matt picked a good number and started at the front of his heat, won that, and led every lap, he would be crucified for that (it’s happened). If he qualified and started mid pack and just hung out til others pitted and he took the lead that way, he’d be crucified for that (it’s happened). If he started in the back and drove his way through, pitted for a tire, and came back to win, he’d be crucified for that (it’s happened). As you well know, there are a hundred different strategies that can work or fail during the course of a race, all with it’s plusses and minuses. Bottom line it’s whoever completes the 100 laps the quickest is the winner, whatever road that goes through. Everyone plays in the same game, sometimes you got to think outside the box to maximize your chances. It could pay off or blow up in your face. Contrary to what many on here believe, winning ANY race is never easy, no matter what track or series. Some just make it look easier than others, like Justin on the tour this year, Bubba pollard in late model racing, or Matt in open comp mod racing. Cudos to them for making an incredibly difficult task appear easy, but it’s all the work in the weeks leading up to these events that make things at the track seem so seamless. JMO.
Let’s face it, MH was getting in the race no matter what. His father-in-law runs the series. Let’s just call it the son-in-law provisional and be done with it.
I will ask this question again, what qualifies a competitor for a provisional? Is this an objective or subjective decision by the series? What criteria is it based on? If this practice is going to continue in the future then it needs to be clearly spelled out in the rules so everyone understands how it works.
Humphry, check out James Schaefer’s post above.
The “son in law provisional”, boy that series has a ton of son in laws since everyone was eligible for it. Just so happens Matt is competitive enough in every race to be high on the list to use it. Wanna be able to get it next year-do your homework and perform better in each race. The provisional was advertised and explained going into EVERY event, it was all over social media, shows how close guys like Humphry pay attention. But it’s a better story to imply something nefarious and sneaky was going on. I thought we were all taught as a kid “it doesn’t cost a cent to pay attention”, I guess that lesson passed by more people than I thought.
I don’t doubt you XRacer. But could you please refer to where it is spelled out in print other then the after the fact post Eddie referred to. I don’t see it in the rules.
Thanks fast, I missed it since XRacer dominated and clogged this thread with all his BS.
..coming from the guy who deemed it the “son in law provisional”. It’s amazing how people have no issue talking trash, then get their feelings hurt when they get called out for not having a clue what they are talking about. Maybe next time take a few seconds to do some research so you don’t look so silly Humphry. Here is a copy and paste from the racerhub forum from earlier this year before the season started in March, also was posted in Raceny forums leading up to this week’s race, as well as numerous other Facebook pages and websites.
limodmaniac’s Avatar limodmaniac limodmaniac is offline
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26 cars will qualify for each of the Tri Track Open Modified Series races. If we add a 27th car to the field, it will be past winner provisional or ( new this year) one of the teams who showed up to all four races last year. Top guy on the list has dibs on the provisional and if used, he would then drop to the bottom of the list. If you do not show up for a race, you will be dropped to the bottom of the list, and cars that were at the race will be moved up the list.
1 – Hirschman
2 – Masse
3 – Coby
4 – Pitkat
5 – Silk
6 – Savary
7 – Pasteryak
8 – McKennedy
9 – Todd Annarummo
10 – Vinnie Annarummo
11- Alexander
12 – Nocella
13- Hinckley
14 – Pennink
15 – Kievman
16 – Cerevolo
17 – Perry
18 – Vigeant
19 – Jankowiak
20 – Barrett ( used provisional last year)
Last edited by limodmaniac; 05-15-2018 at 08:17 PM.
“Don’t hate the player … Hate the game. ” and “If you’re not first, you’re last.” or is it the other way around?
http://www.racerhub.com/forum/showthread.php?27653-Tri-Track-Open-Modified-Series&p=188565#post188565. I hope that link works. It is also on Facebook but harder to find. I usually do a post before each race updating the list. In this case Patnodes name went to top of the list based on his win at Star.
Matt played the game perfectly. He started in his heat race, and consideration. Took the provisional,started last and won the race and championship look at the cup guy’s. They would intentionally not qualify, so they could start the race on stickers. NASCAR fixed the situation by allowing everyone to start on stickers. Matt did what he needed to do, and it paid off. That’s why they call him ” Big Money Matt”. Great job!
Doug, you are not going to find it in the rules as I have read them three times. Where James got his info from I don’t know but he sounds like he knows something more than the rest of us do. I still don’t how they can do what they do when it is not in print.
Ok…here we go…as far as provisionals, Tri- Track rewards guys who show up and support their series….when was the last time there was extra money to be had for a non-qualifiers race?Oh that’s right the great WMT never has a non qualifiers race because they do not have enough cars….And how many provisionals did the queen of the WMT receive a provisional?Face it,the TTOMS is the best thing going…the haters bitch when “only “28 or 30 show up…The Colby’s,Bon signores and not let’s forget the queen would not know what to do in a heat race..The TTOMS guys get it and are in it for the racers and the fans….long live the TTOMS!
Humphry, do you not follow links? Doug asked where to find it other than in the post above, and it was spelled out in posts at least going back to March of this year. All racers on the series know about the provisional, and the order in which you are eligible, it’s spelled out at least by James in the weeks leading up to the race so the racers and fans know what that order is. Sorry it’s not the random “who you know” order you hoped it would be, but again, you would have known that if you simply took the time to look it up rather than spout off about it. “It doesn’t cost a cent to pay attention”.
Thanks fast, I missed it since XRacer dominated and clogged this thread with all his BS.
Ding…back in ( for one anyway} long enough to cover Xracers back. Dareal, DaDoug and Da humpy wouldn’t get it if it were printed on a billboard along 95. Those that actually follow TTOM know full what the provisional is and who is eligible. Racer has his facts down well and will find it frustrating trying to explain in plain English how Matt races his way, when and where he wants and for his own reasons.
Not good enough however for Curley, Larry and Moe ( and a few others). I’ve invited them to ask the cream of the crop on the WMT as to what they think of Matt. Be nice if the “experts” here bought a pit pass, knocked around with teams a little and asked a few pertinent questions and actually learned something. Nah… slinging mud is easier and more fun I guess. Have fun with X. Craz out.
Mr. Schaefer indeed knows all there is to know about the TTOMS particulars as an official of the series it would appear. Thank you for weighing in here to head off the misconceptions floating about.
So it’s clear that the competitors were well informed of how the provisional worked and who would get it so that’s as it should be.
I would ask what about we fans. Why not put just a one paragraph blurb in the very easy to read rules you have posted on the web site. Not the eligible drivers of course but simply the criteria. If you’re going to attract 40 plus cars, have a B Main and put someone in the feature that didn’t earn it on the track on race day why not just give it the same status as weight, fuel, tires etc ?
Great series by the way. When it comes to Open’s who’s your daddy………Tri-Track. This is only a big deal because the event was so successful.
So if I were to enter a car in the Tri Track series then I would have to check not only their web site for the rules but numerous other social media outlets? Why don’t they have all rules clearly printed on their site just like every other track or series? Sounds a tad bit screwed up to me. Easy enough to update their site prior to every event.
So the porcupine is back and pricklier then ever. I for one hope you continue to liven up the forum with your unambiguous barbs.
I have only made one observation. The competitors are well aware of the provisional and that is the most important element. Just suggested it be part of the rules page so we mere fans could have the easiest access to the current guidelines. They do change over the years as Mr. Schaefer has stated so why not make it part of the basic rules package.
Hey Doug. James Schaefer is not an official for the TTOMS. He is one of the original group that started this great series. He is one of the biggest supporters of Modified racing that you will ever find. And all of the other experts have never heard of The Chrome Horn. com either. http://www.racerhub.com/forum/showthread.php?27653-Tri-Track-Open-Modified-Series
In this link all of the EXPERTS can find information on the series all the way back to 2015. In this day I don’t know how one can say that they love the Modifieds and not know about the chrome horn. It is almost dead now but in its day was the best news outlet for modified racing. You Newbies have a lot to learn. Sorry for the rant. It’s all about the rules.
JimB wrote, “In this link all of the EXPERTS can find information on the series all the way back to 2015. ”
That’s three years ago. That’s not long ago at all. That’s not “all the way back” at all. The Chrome Horn was incredibly biased and would not allow discussion of opinions or data they did not like. That’s what happens when the opinions of others are suppressed. Chrome Horn did it to itself, people left for other venues.
Knuckles, well said about sportsmanship.
You are all fools. Here we go.
If you are a good racer you race against the best. Period
The best get paid the most
Period
Stop crapping on the NWMT for payouts losers. If you win races you get paid. If you are good you will win races. If Matt was that good and legal he would run the NWMT.
The 51 won 8 races 89,000.00. Then averaged 3.2 for the other 8 races for another 25,000.00. Now add the 110,000.00 for the championship and tell me who made more money. Matt or Justin? Duhhhhhh. Shows the brain capacity of the people posting. Be the best and get paid the most. Period. That’s like saying Tom Brady wants to play football in Canada because he will make more money per game. Think before you speak people. If you think you have the best driver, best team and best equipment will you test it against Matt Hirshman or Justin Bonsignore?
https://racedayct.com/2012/11/delange-racing-and-driver-eric-beers-leaving-the-nascar-whelen-modified-tour/
Interesting read that popped up-make sure to read the story and the comments at the bottom. From all the way back in 2012. No question Justin had an exceptional year, congrats to him. Now ask what his team spent this year alone, plus all the years leading up to this year where they weren’t as dominant. You can post all the big numbers you’d like, but post numbers from the teams on what they spend to run the whole tour and be that competitive. Maybe if you are willing to find Matt that big sponsor to offset those costs, find a full enough crew to take that much time off of work for 3 day shows and midweek races, you might have a shot to real him in for the whole tour. Maybe you are the fool after all for not realizing what all goes into running a full tour effort, or ask the dozens of team owners past or present what is all involved in doing so. There are a LOT of competitive mod teams racing elsewhere, or on jack stands, that if the math added up would be out there racing, especially ones coming from outside the Tours Connecticut “base”.
He goes to Bronson but not New Symrna, goes to Clearmont but not Stafford, skips Riverhead and goes to Wall, random ROC shows but not MRS? Its not a travel problem, he travels all over folks. It’s not a motor problem either, he races tracks where he is the show and chance of a teardown are in his favor. He is not on anybody’s radar for a ride, because as proven his dominance does not transfer over, and who ever thinks his set ups weren’t in the cars he drove on WMT are idiots.
Hey Crazy sorry I missed you @ Thompson & Seekonk. Congrats on the WIN !!! I see all the haters are out LOL. Hope to see you @ IceBreaker with other team.
Oh boy stats. I love stats. Thanks Joker.
Unless we can coax the accountant for the 51 to weigh in we don’t really know how making money is defined.
Joker would argue that the team that got the highest dollar value in purses is the team that made the most money and is therefore the most talented. On the other hand one could argue that given the size of the 51’s nut going into the season his success could be more accurately defined as the least loser of money. Although Justin Bonsignor receives payment for his success that is actually income to him personally so there that. And the size of the sponsorship that in itself is probably the single greatest component to the finances of any team. Hirschman, his deal, his sponsors, the cherry picking of races, his relationship with the owner, how it is interwoven with his incentives. Good luck figuring that deal out. It’s all so very in the weeds.
Even with my limited brain capacity it seems clear that you’re comparing apples and donuts.
The only thing I would really disagree with Joker is your hook so many lean on in making an argument. The zero sum game. I don’t see why we can’t enjoy both these guys success without giving a fig about what money either makes or loses cause in the end only their accountants really know.
We’re lucky to have each of them for completely different reasons.
Joker, stop trying to edumacate these deplorables. They don’t want to know. Just have fun with them. Most never see what the point fund is, they have no idea. All they know is the purse payout. This cherry picking the so-called high paying events is very misleading since he is not running for points and the commensurate points fund payout. “Big Money” is a misnomer. But it has good optics. Cherry picking the high paying events is what you do when you don’t have a chance to win a championship.
I asked my team owner why MH was not running regularly and he explained that MH demanded to be paid. And this was around 10 years ago. That’s one of the big reasons why owners don’t go near him.
Hey humphry, ride by the NLWSB lately? Construction started yet? 🤣
XRacer, wouldn’t you think MH would have had outstanding sponsorship for many, many years already? I mean, if he’s as great as he says he is, sponsors should be lining up with bushels of money.
I do hope that Tri-Track closes that provisional loophole.
Rich-you didn’t make it out of your first line without discrediting your statement. Obviously you don’t pay too close of attention, since Matt does run New Smyrna, in fact won the JB III race and the championship this year alone. He also has raced and won MRS races in the past. For those of you thinking it’s not a vastly more expensive undertaking to leave PA on Friday and return Sunday night for a race at Thompson versus a one day show at say a Chemung or Evergreen, while owning your own business, with no full time help or corporate sponsors to offset costs, you are sadly mistaken. Again, read the link and comments I posted, which may provide some insight why there aren’t any more full time competive teams on the tour, not just the 60 team.
https://racedayct.com/2015/11/patrick-emerling-likely-to-cut-back-whelen-modified-tour-schedule-in-2016/
Another good read, and interesting comments from guys like dareal and Humphry. So they do understand why guys like Patrick or Matt wouldn’t race the tour full time. Wonder why their tune has changed between one driver to the next? Sounds like a lot of common statements in the last 2 links I’ve posted apply to the Hirschman situation of today, yet it’s still so hard for some to grasp. Keep reading and doing research. Don’t believe my words, take it from others who have actually done it like the Emerlings or Delanges versus the ones who may buy a grandstand ticket or a pit pass and think they know what it all takes to run a full time program, especially from outside of the Tour’s home base area. Great reading these old articles.
Construction at the speedbowl, yea right, I am saving my gas man. And for once I agree with dareal on two subjects. If MH is that dam good then why aren’t the sponsors knocking his door down throwing money at him to run the WMT? Also closing the provisional loop hole to prevent intentional sandbagging.
If Matt brought the Red 60 to New Symrna then I stand corrected by XRacer.
Hirschman won a race and the weeks championship in New Smyrna.
Touche’ as well on digging up old contradictory quotes. Well played XRacer.
We can all agree on one thing. Hirschman always attracts interest in this forum.
Meanwhile Justin and his team are so excellent there’s just never anything to raise a ruckus about.
A couple of questions if I may.
1) was Richie Evans cherry picking when he didn’t pursue a driving opportunity to move up to Winston Cup in the early 80’s?
2) Was Pee Dee legal this day at Hickory ?
http://southernmodifiedracingseries.com/index.php/2018/04/03/matt-hirschman-takes-hickory-smrs-75-lap-event/
Crazy in NY wrote: “was Richie Evans cherry picking when he didn’t pursue a driving opportunity to move up to Winston Cup in the early 80’s?”
What does that even mean?
Richie Evans NEVER cherry picked, ran as many night a week as races scheduled
Matt can run where he chooses, if he likes certain tracks or wants to run a track with racing history then great!!
I don’t like showing up at a track with no intent to qualify like everyone else, saying he was smart and clever to use the rules as allowed is total BS, and he deserves any criticism he gets! And doing that for a series your father in law runs is not a good look, add allll the excuses about not running STAFFORD, THOMPSON, NHMS just is a bad look but his rubes cant see that
Using the phrase “is not a good look” is just so appropriate and refreshingly non hyperbolic. Doesn’t have any implication about the guys career in total, the tracks he races or anything else. For this one incident it simply was “not a good look”.
My wish for 2019 is for Stafford to offer enough money in their Opens if they continue them to entice Hirschman to pay a visit.
If you haven’t read up, Matt did not “show up at the track with no intent to qualify like everyone else”. He was third in line for the provisional, behind Patnode and Silk. Had either of them not qualified, which Silk almost didn’t until dumping Barrett at the end of the heat, Matt would not have been able to do what he did. Had he pulled a good number and won the heat and ran up front all race, people would be mad about that too. But with that option available, he would have been a fool to try and go from 11th to 5th to qualify in the heat, maybe get tore up, and/or run the consi for what, to improve his starting spot by 5 positions? You play the cards you are dealt, some are better than others at it. Last I checked the lap that pays the money and the trophy is lap 100 of the feature, so you do what’s best to put yourself in position to lead that one. It happens all over, from short tracks with a tire bank to big super late model races to Cup where guys save laps on tires to be better off to start the event. Some may not like it, and that’s their opinion and everyone is entitled to it. Everyone seems to be on the “did what he had to do to win” bandwagon these days, including dumping a guy for that win (or qualifying spot) Matt uses a little strategy without tearing up his or anyone else’s stuff and there is an uproar over it. There is an equal amount of people who love it than hate it, to each their own, but at least we are still talking about mod racing.
Please, stop trying to compare MH to Richie, that’s insulting to Richie. MH isn’t near the same league as Richie, never will be. MH can’t even cut it on the NMT, where Richie owned it.
Ok let me try to keep this ball rolling Matt and his father treat it like a business period sponsors there aren’t any that’s why peedee only runs some races as far as the tour they don’t make it easy on any team several teams come from Long Island and they have you have to be at the track at 8 am so you have to go up the day before most tour shows should be one day also if you think the 51 made money this year I have a bridge to sell you hirshman did
DaDrool I knew you couldn’t understand my point. No one was comparing MH to RE. I read here Matt is afraid to run the Tour so I was asking if RE was afraid to run Cup. To wmass….. Wayne is NOT Matt’s father in law. See if you can figure out why. And Matt won TT races long before his “father in law” was involved in the series. It’s plain stupid to think any series run by anybody wants the same guy to win all the time. Oh…fyi Matt only won ONCE of the TTOM this year but keep pumping that dry well .
Another question :
Was Matt legal in this race? https://www.racing-reference.info/race/2012_GreenPointe_Energy_75/M
Another podium in yet another non red 60.
Don’t see how anyone could have made a better case for Hirschman doing what he did then XRacer. After reading his logic several times it seems it was the only logical course of action. Assessing his draw, making sure he knew of the status of the other drivers both with regard to the provisional and their status in qualifying. Being absolutely sure he would get in and feeling confident he could pass the field. Smart guy. Then I’m thinking in the half century plus as a fan why haven’t I seen more people as smart.
Maybe because it’s not a good look.
I’m thinking of dominant cars like Tom Fearns. He could have been clever after he secured his championship in the Stafford Late Models and even before. Could have played possum. Cruised around in his heat and pulled in feigning some mechanical issue. Saved gas and rubber and won the championship and features. Heck in most races he had to pass the best cars in the field anyway. But there he was to my knowledge competing in every heat. If not trying his hardest at least looking like he was. I think he did it because that’s what racers do and have always done.
You make a great case XRacer for how logical it was and it surely was. I just think it disrespects the heritage of racing and the fans. We’ll see now if it gains popularity. If Matt started a whole new thing for the best cars to save resources then we mere fans can ask if racing is better off for it.
There’s no problem with the provisional for Hirschman. But, the series should have required him to run some hot laps on his tires before the feature. I saw that done at the Bowl for a touring race I the last few years.
Crazy in NY wrote, “DaDrool I knew you couldn’t understand my point. No one was comparing MH to RE. I read here Matt is afraid to run the Tour so I was asking if RE was afraid to run Cup.”
That explanation makes no sense. You ARE comparing RE vs MH, and saying you are not while you are. So since you say no one was comparing MH to RE, but you were, whether RE was afraid to run Cup is moot and irrelevant. But you don’t understand that.
I’ll give you that Doug, I like well thought out posts. Maybe this race Matt’s strategy got some people up in arms. Like I said, some loved that he was able to play that strategy, while others disapproved. Like I also said earlier, Matt’s won a lot of races in a lot of series in all different forms or fashions, which also get people up in arms. He’s drawn a good number and dominated events, leading some to say it was too easy. He’s drawn a poor number and come from the back, making some angry. He’s won it by pitting early, pitting late, not pitting, and each one has led others to claim foul, he’s cheating, there’s no competition, driver x wasn’t there to race against, he can’t do it here, he can’t do it there, he needs to race here, doesn’t need to race there. Some love him, some hate him, but hard to argue with the success that has come out of that garage and from that family, 2 generation’s worth. And if it keeps us talking and interested in the mod scene, good for him and good for all of us who go to watch, even if we disagree on the end result.
By the way-no one will ever be another Richie Evans. Not Matt, not Justin, not Doug-no one. Let’s just get that out of the way. But when you have Richie Evans Jr crediting Matt for his barnstorming ways and his work prepping his stuff, I’d say that a pretty big vote of confidence from someone who has watched the greatest in action.
I’ve been lucky to see Richie run, for many, many years. I’ll watch a race nowadays and say to myself that none of these guys could run with Richie. There hasn’t been anything like Richie, at all. MH is no RE. MH is no barnstormer, whatever that may be. MH is at best a very small track specialist. He does well on the tiny bullrings. MH does not do well on the Staffords, Thompsons, Loudon, etc. RE did very well on any track he ran.
Richie Jr is not the only person that ever saw Richie run. Richie Jr is not an oracle of modified racing to be casting expert judgement or annointing someone with a label of greatness. I’m certainly not going to defer to anything he says.
Richie Jr is not the only person that ever saw Richie run. Richie Jr is not an oracle of modified racing to be casting expert judgement or annointing someone with a label of greatness. I’m certainly not going to defer to anything he says.
No ONE said REjr was the only one to ever see Richie run. Where do you come up with this stuff?
RE jr isn’t an oracle or an “expert in judgement” on greatness but you are ? Yeah OK.
tiny bullrings !!! ? Like Oswego? Concord? New Smyrna, Lancaster? Spencer? .
I know I know because it’s not one of your Whelen snob approved tracks so he’s not worth acknowledging. You are hopeless
Doug really? “If Matt started a whole new thing for the best cars to save resources ………”
LOL …. yeah he invented being smart and using the rule book to his advantage.
You’re the best.
Dareal, it’s obvious again how well you pay attention. I said NO ONE is on the same level as RE, and I’d say Matt or any of his fans would never claim Matt to be. But because you watched Richie from afar for some years invalidates what the man’s own son, who spent his whole life going to races and watching his dad work in the shop, is beyond laughable. You watched it for a few hours a week, he LIVED it 24/7, so I’d be willing to “defer” to someone like that over someone like you. To think you know more about Richie and his racing efforts than his own son is “not a good look” for you as well. In case you haven’t noticed, Matt does pretty decent at those short tracks of New Smyrna, Concord, Oswego, where there’s no way guys can beat him “since he has so many more laps and races than everyone else”, you know, like they do versus him at places like Stafford and Thompson. We get it, you are not a big Matt fan, that’s fine. But careful with your quotes like I’ve pointed out that contradict yourself, and statements like above questioning RE JR’s credibility make you look even less credible. I’d say even your fellow Matt haters would agree to that. Or maybe you’d like to reach out to RE yourself with your “expert judgement” and explain why his version of the way things were and his comparisons to today are wrong?
X, well, REJr is a namesake, but that is about it. He’s not a legend like his dad. REJr is a nobody in modified racing, and only is what he is because he is a namesake, not because of his own achievements. REJr uses and abuses his namesake and its connection to his legendary father. But REJr is nothing in modified racing. He has no legendary racing record to give him irrefutable, authoritative credibility. What has REJr done for modified racing? What is his racing record? What if REJr was named Tyrone instead of Richie, do you think anyone would listen to him? REJr had his a$$ handed to him by JBon on some board for some ridiculous comments he made.
When you bring up a legend like RE, and contrast if someone else is doing the same as the legend, you ARE COMPARING TO THE LEGEND. Now you can say you are not doing that as many times as you want and in ALL CAPS, but the fact remains that you are comparing to the legend while you are saying you are not. It’s like when Trump says he’s not going to call Kim Jong Un fat. He did cal KJU fat while saying he wasn’t going to do it. It’s like Trump saying there was no collusion, but several people in his campaign have already plead guilty and have been or are awaiting sentencing for their involvement in the collusion.
So you said no one was comparing MH to RE. Good, leave it at that, for your own good. If you were not trying to compare MH to RE, then you did not ever and do not need to continue to argue the credentials and credibility of REJr.
I won’t call you a stupid-idiot-moron.
Good luck X trying to use plain logic on Da Fool as his rose colored glasses are all he knows. Of course
MH or anybody else isn’t in the same plane as RE that’s not what I was saying. It is/was suggested Matt doesn’t race SMS, Thomp, or NH because he’s “afraid” or he’s a “bullring specialist” and he only races where he’s “comfortable”. OK in that same vein was RE ‘afraid”, “not comfortable” or not willing
to go out of his element and go south to Cup race like so many others before and since have done? Or…..(just maybe) both RE and MH were/are perfectly happy in their racing ways going and doing it on their terms. This much however I do know. They both love(d) Modifieds and that’s OK…. so do I. And…lets go further.
Some here don’t like or didn’t like what Matt did “in the spirit” of competition at Seekonk. That’s fine but was Richie Evans “racing fair” when he put on stickers before a regular feature (35 laps) at a place like Utica/ Rome and others like it when he was chasing NASCAR title points back in the day.? How many of you know of the days of unlimited tires but how many teams couldn’t keep up with the big $$ sponsored ones back them? I’ll tell you MOST couldn’t. The best in any era figure it out. Always have always will. Keep grinding away though….it’s entertaining to say the least.
Ok dareal-you’ve bought some grandstand tickets to some races and watched from afar, while RE JR spent his childhood going to the races and spending time in the shop watching his legendary father take care of business. I’d say that alone would give his opinion some clout in the Modified world. Then spent the better part of his adult years working on Modifieds, Trucks, Busch cars, etc. So he isn’t a 9 time champion driver like his father, big deal, it’s doesnt make his time in the sport any less qualified to have a valid opinion. What are your credentials exactly again that make what you say gospel and others should listen to you when to race, where to race, how to race? How many hours have you spent working on race cars in the shop like MH or RE? How many dollars have to sunk into those cars like MH? Talking politics on a racing site is really grasping for straws, but like I said, I’d rather take the words of those in the sport who have lived and sacrificed for it versus someone who experienced it from afar but claims to know all the inner workings on budgets, schedules, technical aspects, etc. You have no issue disputing and condemning other people’s accomplishments in the sport, what have you done that makes you an “oracle of modified racing” other than watch races from the grandstands?
Popcorn!!! hey get your popcorn here!!
Crazy Between the Ears wrote, “Some here don’t like or didn’t like what Matt did “in the spirit” of competition at Seekonk. That’s fine but was Richie Evans “racing fair” when he put on stickers before a regular feature (35 laps) ”
There you go again. So are you comparing what MH did to what RE did? Say what you may, but per what you wrote, you are indeed comparing MH and RE. Again.
There’s a huge difference in scamming the rules to save tires like MH did so that he had more tire left in a tire limited event, than when RE was racing and he had all the tires he could afford. That was about funding. You had it or you didn’t. Not an unsportsmanlike move to use all the resources you have available, such as lots of tires when there was no tire limiting rule. So that was not a problem.
So your newest attempt to compare MH exploiting a loophole in the rules in Seekonk to RE using all the tires he could afford is a false equivalence. A bad and failed attempt to make what MH did look good by COMPARING it to something completely different. MH exploited a loophole in the rules and RE used all the tires he needed to. A totally false equivalence.
Again, I’m going to play nice and not call you a stupid-idiot-moron.
Hey Crazy, I’ll take a large bag and a 2-liter of soda; this may take a while! 🙂 Here’s my take on this: Let’s take Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt, both icons of the sport. You can talk about their achievements and accolades endlessly. You can compare them as people with things like work ethic, drive, desire, and determination. Can you really compare their careers directly, apples to apples? No you cannot, because they occurred at different times in life. Cars changed, rules changed, tracks changed, technology changed, and financial requirements changed. They were both two of the greatest drivers of their era, “their moment in time”, but they can’t really be compared directly, just as Richie Evans can’t be directly compared to any drivers of today. You’re talking different timeframes in history, both very different from each other. I think “Greatest of their era” really applies.
Just was chatting with an NWMT car owner who told me that the 2019 rules are going to get rid of the restrictor plate for ALL tour races, including Loudon. Shaun – do you have any inside info on the rules package for next year?
X scribbled, “Ok dareal-you’ve bought some grandstand tickets to some races and watched from afar, while RE JR spent his childhood going to the races and spending time in the shop watching his legendary father take care of business. I’d say that alone would give his opinion some clout in the Modified world. Then spent the better part of his adult years working on Modifieds, Trucks, Busch cars, etc. So he isn’t a 9 time champion driver like his father, big deal, it’s doesnt make his time in the sport any less qualified to have a valid opinion. What are your credentials exactly again that make what you say gospel and others should listen to you when to race, where to race, how to race? How many hours have you spent working on race cars in the shop like MH or RE? How many dollars have to sunk into those cars like MH? Talking politics on a racing site is really grasping for straws, but like I said, I’d rather take the words of those in the sport who have lived and sacrificed for it versus someone who experienced it from afar but claims to know all the inner workings on budgets, schedules, technical aspects, etc. You have no issue disputing and condemning other people’s accomplishments in the sport, what have you done that makes you an “oracle of modified racing” other than watch races from the grandstands?”
Crazy in the cranium wrote, “Good luck X trying to use plain logic on Da Fool as his rose colored glasses are all he knows. Of course
MH or anybody else isn’t in the same plane as RE that’s not what I was saying. It is/was suggested Matt doesn’t race SMS, Thomp, or NH because he’s “afraid” or he’s a “bullring specialist” and he only races where he’s “comfortable”. OK in that same vein was RE ‘afraid”, “not comfortable” or not willing
to go out of his element and go south to Cup race like so many others before and since have done? Or…..(just maybe) both RE and MH were/are perfectly happy in their racing ways going and doing it on their terms. This much however I do know. They both love(d) Modifieds and that’s OK…. so do I. And…lets go further.
Some here don’t like or didn’t like what Matt did “in the spirit” of competition at Seekonk. That’s fine but was Richie Evans “racing fair” when he put on stickers before a regular feature (35 laps) at a place like Utica/ Rome and others like it when he was chasing NASCAR title points back in the day.? How many of you know of the days of unlimited tires but how many teams couldn’t keep up with the big $$ sponsored ones back them? I’ll tell you MOST couldn’t. The best in any era figure it out. Always have always will. Keep grinding away though….it’s entertaining to say the least.”
So you continue to compare whatever to RE and REJr. Remember, this is about a very unsportsmanlike and bush league move by MH exploit a loophole in the rules so he could avoid pre-feature qualifying races to give himself an advantage in the feature. I thought Trump used diversions and distractions. Go ahead, talk about the non-racing rules exploiting move MH did at Seekonk to avoid running his car to save it for the feature. I do hope that Tri-Track fixes that loophole.
And I forgot to say, just because someone else did something else, doesn’t make it right… still. What MH did was an unsportsmanlike and bush league move.
RichC,
I have not heard that.
Joker says:
The 51 won 8 races 89,000.00. Then averaged 3.2 for the other 8 races for another 25,000.00. Now add the 110,000.00 for the championship and tell me who made more money. Matt or Justin? Duhhhhhh. Shows the brain capacity of the people posting.
$110,000 for the NWMT chanpionship? where has this figure been posted?
a “short track specialist at best” is how to descibe Matt Hirschman??!!
that’s silly
i’ve seen him win several times at larger tracks against top notch competition from the top to the bottom of the fields (unlike the NWMT and its 6-8 good cars and 20 cars of rich men that can afford such an expensive hobby with no chance of a financial return)
examples: Concord for the NSS, New Smryna for the World Series, Myrtle Beach for a November open comp show back in the day. also saw him win RoC at Oswego and RoC tour event at Holland. none of those venues are the “short track specialist” bullrings you refer to. but, hey, why would you ever let facts help determine your opinion?!?
Fast Eddie, great point. That’s related to what happened on another board. REJr was trash talking today’s young guns. JBon called him out, saying he, of all people, should know better.
We fired 4 stickers on our SK every night for the feature back in the 90’s. Why? Because there was nothing in the rules that said we could not. Why not have a competitive advantage? RE went to the track with the attitude he could win on any given night and used his competitive advantage. That is what it takes to be a champion. As the great John Force said “second place is the first looser”.
In my opinion MH manipulated the rules and the series needs to close the loop hole so the racing does not get boring. I am certain others will try the same in the future which will take away from the excitement of what the series was designed to be thus cheating the fans.
“i’ve seen him win several times at larger tracks against top notch competition from the top to the bottom of the fields (unlike the NWMT and its 6-8 good cars and 20 cars of rich men that can afford such an expensive hobby with no chance of a financial return)
examples: Concord for the NSS, New Smryna for the World Series, Myrtle Beach for a November open comp show back in the day. also saw him win RoC at Oswego and RoC tour event at Holland. none of those venues are the “short track specialist” bullrings you refer to. but, hey, why would you ever let facts help determine your opinion?!?”
Of the total races MH has run, those examples are a tiny minuscule fraction, and it will happen. But just look at his record on the NMT… not good at all, and there are very few itty-bitty bullrings on the NMT. His record is good on ROC, where they run mostly small bullring type tracks, not many speedways. I’ll agree, MH is a very good bullring specialist. That does not earn even the slightest comparison to a legend such as RE.
“In my opinion MH manipulated the rules and the series needs to close the loop hole so the racing does not get boring.”…….. !!!!! Humpry dumpry had a great fall. The fastest car starts tail and that’s boring?
From the keen mind of a Whelen snob where they start all the speed up front every race?
Look …I gotta go out in the lobby now for a Big Gulp and large box of Good N’ Plenty…don’t anybody take my seat.
and……………….
” But just look at his record on the NMT… not good at all, and there are very few itty-bitty bullrings on the NMT. His record is good on ROC, where they run mostly small bullring type tracks, not many speedways…………”
Hello!! McFly!!! Riverhead and Monadnock are not and have never been on the ROC and Lancaster,Oswego, Spencer, and (ittsy bittsy) Lake Erie ( same size as Waterford) are not bullrings in any thinking persons mind. While I’m out I’ll pick up some 3 in 1 oil for your squirrel cage. Whew!!!
That was a shrewd exploitation of the rules, a bush league move. MH probably would not have won if he didn’t do it.
Tri-track needs to close the loophole that allowed MH to effectively sandbag, or the fledgling series will fold like origami.
Hey Crazy I see you guys are running the NSS are you also running The Turkey Derby at Wall ??
Matt found a grey area that he was able to use to his advantage. Maybe not politically correct in our minds, but smart on his part; he’s $9K richer for it. He could have just as easily got caught up in a wreck early on and had his strategy backfire on him. Hopefully TriTrack adds some verbiage to eliminate that possibility in the future.
If I have it right, Matt’s last full time run on the WMT was 2011; he was 6th in the championship hunt. I’d call that a pretty decent season.
I’d mildly disagree with tepid conviction about Fast Eddies observation that it’s fruitless to compare drivers from different era’s.
No not the comparing a Hall of Famer to a current driver that I think is great for the sport tho certainly not in any Hall of Fame conversation at this point. But well intended debate of other drivers like Stefanik and Christopher, their overall contributions to the sport and place in history I would think are fair game. Rocco in 10 or 15 years may be in that group as well maybe, we’ll see. Preece, Bonsignor, Coby and more I would imagine will enter into the conversation at some point. More I’m sure that don’t come to mind.
As for bygone era’s and drivers we can compare the current crop to there was another Hall of Famer that seems to never get out of Evans shadow in this forum named Jerry Cook.
Does the darealgoodfella Modified Series 2019 have a schedule out yet?
Back on track, again…
That was a shrewd exploitation of the rules, a bush league move. MH probably would not have won if he didn’t do it.
Crazy in NY wrote, “Hello!! McFly!!! Riverhead and Monadnock are not and have never been on the ROC and Lancaster,Oswego, Spencer, and (ittsy bittsy) Lake Erie ( same size as Waterford) are not bullrings in any thinking persons mind. While I’m out I’ll pick up some 3 in 1 oil for your squirrel cage. Whew!!!”
CiNY is emulating Biff, the raging stupid-idiot-moron doofus character. Crazy, your mother must be so proud. For now on, Crazy in New York is Biff.
I do hope that Tri-Track closes that loophole.
While I appreciate very much the XDriver column it’s a little too generic and vague for my taste.
On the other hand Xracer is a welcome addition. I assume a person with current of former race team experience. Sharp tongued, smart, good writer and makes good points. That I mostly disagree with but only because we see topics from different vantage points.
Hope you continue to post Xracer.
Wow. I shocked after all this this time none of the resident conspiracy theorists here have not tried to claim the “match race” was a setup by Seekonk and PASS to “defame” the Modifieds by having a Pro Stock\Super Late Model win. LOL
I thought the match race was a nice demonstration of showing how the Pro Stocks are as fast as the Modifieds at Seekonk. When Les Hinckley was leading, Dave Darling hung right with him, and vice-versa. I’m sure neither was completely “up on the wheel”, but they weren’t laying back either.
I was joking, most match races on short tracks are pretty staged. I had not seen one in over 20 years, but I think the agreement is pretty much for them to race side by side every lap and maybe then really get on the gas coming out of turn coming to the checkered. I even saw one once where the guys stopped in turn 4, got out of their cars and ran to the finish line.
I wonder why they did not select MH for the match race?
I am certain they were all on used rubber and not up on the wheel or I am sure we know what car would have won.
Thanks Doug, I try. It doesn’t take much effort to think through and make a post not name calling, accusing… It doesn’t take much effort either to do a little bit of research online, pretty much you can find anything on there. As racers or race fans, everyone has different opinions, what’s frustrating is reading the same people being negative about anything and everything, sometimes even contradicting themselves from one thread to the next. This guy should do this, this series should do that, this track should do this, races are too long, races are too short, this racer should race here, this racer shouldn’t race there, this racer wins because he cheats, this racer didn’t win because he doesn’t cheat. Like I said it’s easy to be a Monday morning racer, but until you are spending the hours in the shop prepping the cars, spending the money to foot all the bills, just seeing everything that goes into fielding a car at ANY race, much less successfully, it would be nice to see more people talking about what’s right about the division we love and enjoying the races, no matter what series or who is or isn’t entered, and less time focusing on the negative, which occurs at every sporting event across the country. Obviously 100 posts into this thread, love him or hate him, MH brings a lot of attention to mod racing and has people like us talking and paying attention. You can’t fault the guy for supporting races up and down the east coast, from Florida to New Hampshire, in all series (WMT included), all without a corporate sponsor on the side of the car or full time people in the shop. How many others can you name that do the same? A whole lot less than we used to, so kudos to Matt for supporting all these different series, tracks, and events.
JMB, I bet the foot race must have been a hoot! I haven’t seen a match race with two different types of cars before; it was fun to watch.
Humphrey, Hinckley might have been chosen due to past seat time in Wayne Darling’s Modified. He ran some TriTrack events in #52 previously.
XRacer & Doug, I’m with you; going to the races has been near and dear to me forever. I try to not get negative about anything, as I don’t want to attack my favorite thing to do. I also have a lot of appreciation for anyone’s efforts to race. I’m sure even the lowest budget team still has a lot of money, time, and effort invested in getting out there to race.
Fast Eddie,XRacer & Doug Im with you guys also. I LOVE going to the races its one of my favorite things to do.I go to well over a dozen MOD shows a year usually with the same group of people and always have a good time. There is no such thing as a bad race some just better than others !!!
It’s hard to argue with the notion that MH is the #1 guy in modified racing these days.
How did he do in the North South Shootout? Have not seen anything on this site yet as far as results………
Matt came up a bit short but played the wait strategy to near (almost) perfection down at Concord.
One more lap and he would have had the 7. He was a rocket at the end and don’t give me the he cheats jive. Every car got extensive tech before and after the race.
Did I say anything about cheating? Don’t get so defensive. Who won?
I have to say Rafter that after I read your comment I was taken aback. Seriously how could anyone suggest anyone other then Bonsignor’s was the top gun this year.
But it makes sense. Hirschman may not race as much or where many think he should but he is almost always in the front when he is present. More importantly he puts butts in the stands. Just look at the interest he garners here.
Whether it’s invading the elite at a NWMT show, duking it out with Preece at New Smyrna or playing possum with the gang at the TTOMS the guy brings the juice.
humpy, Why do you think my comments were directed to you? There are a number of people on this site that make that bogus claim and have done so recently. Really, you have to ask who won? Is this the only site you frequent ? Plenty of outlets reported on the race that Jon McKennedy won.
So I finally found out that McKennedy won. Started on the pole, won the race. Is this the same McKennedy that runs the WMT, is a past VMRS champion, a past ISMA champion?
It is written that MH almost won using the same wait strategy to perfection and would have had the 7 given one more lap. The race was 125 laps not 126 so I guess that is a moot point. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades not racing.
Great run for the 7 bunch and MH put on a show as well.
OK hump lets play a game. You are right the race was 125 not 126. True. Coming off 7 straight wins MH pulling up second at Concord clearly shows he on the decline. Second sucks second rate is not good right? Hmmmm did 7 time WMT runner up Reggie Ruggiero suck? He and Matt have won the same number of Tour titles.
And how many Modified Tour events did the Reg compete in during his career and win vs. MH? How many seasons did the Reg compete on the Modified Tour vs. MH? Really? You are trying to compare peaches to jelly donuts. As usual you are reaching, get in out of the cold because it is effecting your brain cells. Reggie was one of the best in the business and will always be. MH is not in the same universe as the Reg and you can’t compare them. You guys lost so get over it.
Crazy, 7 straight wins? What series? Was there any competition? What is your definition of winning? Crazy, if a bunch of the RoC cars showed up for a WMT race, they’d be embarrassed. That MH dominates over such RoC teams is not notable, and not transferable to discussing his record on the WMT. You can’t compare RoC to WMT. MH does not do well on the WMT, but dominates on the RoC. Get it yet? MH is a big fish in the little RoC puddle. He ain’t a factor on the WMT. Now please, you will bring up that win… yea. On a track that MH has run millions of laps. Quite plausible. You sound like Trump after election day 2016 saying he won in a landslide, and then in 2018, saying he was on the ballot and won again. If he really won as he says, why is he constantly raging? FYI, Trump did not win in a landslide in 2016, he lost the popular vote by > 3 million votes, and Trump was destroyed in the 2018 midterms. He’s still raging over that. Just like you, you are still raging.
Can we please PLEASE keep the political BS off our beloved AUTO RACING website? Last time I checked, there isn’t anyone named Trump in a racecar. And I’m sure there are plenty of racing analogies that can be used when needed.
And yes the ROC cars would not do well, primarily nowadays because they don’t have SPEC engines. I can remember not all that long ago watching Eric Beers and Chuck Hossfeld being competitive when they ran the WMT along with Hirschman. All things being equal, I think the ROC teams would be very competitive. Case in point: Patrick Emerling along with WMT rookie of the year Tommy Catalano, who I believe ran a “built” engine all season.
Fast Eddie wrote, “And yes the ROC cars would not do well, primarily nowadays because they don’t have SPEC engines.”
Two sentences later, Fast Eddie wrote, “All things being equal, I think the ROC teams would be very competitive.”
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Trump, and how he lies and contradicts himself within the same sentence, is a perfect analogy.
Dareal, I don’t quite know how you call my statements a contradiction. You seem to be saying that ROC drivers aren’t good enough to run the WMT. My first statement says the two series’ cars are different. The second statement says if the cars were equal, I think the ROC teams would be able to compete with the WMT. There are also some additional facts referencing drivers and teams to support my opinions. I’m not saying “they’re not, but they are.” I’m saying “they’re not, but in comparable equipment they would be”.
Based on MH’s recent runs on the NWMT, it’s hard to believe that he wouldn’t be a strong contender for the championship if he chose to run full time. Of course, we’ll never know for absolutely sure, unless he decides to do so …
” What is your definition of winning?”
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT?
Ah, here in North America it’s generally defined as the first car to complete the required number of laps. In your neighborhood on Neptune I can’t say.
“That MH dominates over such RoC teams is not notable, and not transferable to discussing his record on the WMT.
Again WTFreak are you talking about? I didn’t mention the ROC or WMT I simply stated he won 7 in a row. But…since you are hung up on it, it started when he beat Ryan Preece at Spencer, then owned the Tour field at Oswego.. but he was second best at Concord so…he’s a nothing. Right?
“He ain’t a factor on the WMT. Now please, you will bring up that win… yea. On a track that MH has run millions of laps.”
A track that he lost to RP the year before (second) to the 3 other ( non factor) podium finishes in 2018.
Last question for you to ponder in 2018, Did/do TC/KR win every race at Stafford they entered?
(Oh no!! Crazy is comparing MH to the great TC and KR)……ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Done with you Space Ranger. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Crazy, he won 7 in a row on RoC quality races, a series that is not full of top notch, WMT teams. It’s sort of a VMRS. Yeah, it’s modified racing, but off-off-off-broadway caliber. If a person/team is associated with a race shop, they had better prevail over that level of competition. Bragging that MH won on an off-off-off-off broadway event is not notable.
Crazy, do you have any idea what your point is?
And the raging goes on. Crazy, you are like Trump on Twitter. You make Trump look less nuts. Are you on steroids?
How nice, MH won 7 in a row… on off-off-off broadway events, or his home tracks where he has a huge advantage over the invaders. What do you expect?
Fast Eddie, all things won’t be equal until MH runs with the NWMT on all those regular NWMT tracks. Can’t say he’s the real deal until then.
This whole Hirschman not racing here or there or on certain types of tracks is too narrow. He needs to be thought of outside the box. Pee Dee is not a team not conforming to a series but their own tour. If you want to be a fan the proper way is admire them for the unique, multi regional traveling roadshow they are. Not for what you think they should be but never tried to be.
7 wins in a row is a good piece of information as far as it goes. A few more kernels.
They race a total of 31 events, 11 at Southern tracks, 12 in what generally could be considered western Northeast tracks. Raced in 6 ROC events , 4 TTOMS and 4 NWMT. In the NWMT he had three thirds and a 1st. Likes Evergreen Raceway appearing there on 4 occasions and won each time. With 29 events completed so far he has 14 firsts, 4 seconds,5 thirds and finished off the podium only 6 times.
It is true the team raced more times in New Hampshire then Connecticut so for we natives that’s not a fun stat to digest. But in the bigger picture it’s irrelevant.
Is their goal to be the one exception and actually make money in east coast short track racing? Or is it to travel, have fun and lose the least money? Only their accountant knows for sure.
While the season is over for most these guys still have two events to go at Myrtle Beach and Wall.
Hirschman, Pee Dee, the 60. They are a square peg. Try as we might they will never fit in the various round holes each of us favors.
Dareal, from my previous post above on 11/7:
“If I have it right, Matt’s last full time run on the WMT was 2011; he was 6th in the championship hunt. I’d call that a pretty decent season.”
Before that was his full season in 2008, when he finished 2nd (Yes that’s SECOND!) in championship points to none other than TC. I believe most of the “regular NWMT tracks” were still in use then. Dareal, by your specific standards, I think that qualified him as “the real deal” quite some time ago.
I’d bet most of the “WMT real deals” would really enjoy having Hirschman’s stats as posted by Doug, as well as the paychecks that came with them!
Doug have you ever seen MATT Hirschman race????
A better question wmass would be why are you so disappointed in not seeing the 60 live and in person?
After the Opens were announced at Stafford one of the first things I thought of was Hirschman adding the race to his schedule. The weeks and months leading up to the first Open watching the list of entrants grow and hoping the 60 would pop up. Taking my seat at the first event watching practice and still hoping to see his car making an unexpected appearance. Knowing he listed himself on the SK roster of drivers so he clearly had Stafford on his mind at some point. Alas it was never to be.
We all got a huge dose of the 60 during Speedweeks didn’t we. Some pretty heavy hitters there including Preece, Emerling, the 7 NY, Lutz and more. Hirschman always near the front at the end finishing 4th, 2nd, 1st,4th and 2nd on 5 successive nights. Winning the Speedweeks championship in the process. My recollection was the tactical race he ran on the third night saving his tires for most of the race then taking the lead almost like it was a forgone conclusion as all the rabbits tires faded. And his victory lane chat on the final night. Not a guy celebrating the weeks championship but almost agonizing on what mistake he made that prevented him from getting by Preece in the race just run.
For all those that say he can’t race the bigger tracks why not view the Spencer race once again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzyaxOQdNuc
Like at New Smyrna and every place else the master tactician saving his tires until it’s time to go. Watching Emerling go high and low to pass a car and using up his tires in the process then tucking neatly behind the 07 as he piggyback’s on Emerlings success while not wasting rubber in the process. Fast forward to the victory lane ceremony and listen to evidence of why Hischman is one of the absolutely smartest guys in racing today, a worthy peer of Preece and get a clue on what he feels about his nickname in the process.
So the question should not be have I seen him live and in person. The question should be why do people, that have not been in proximity to a race on his schedule, seem to hope that some day they are.
“A better question wmass would be why are you so disappointed in not seeing the 60 live and in person?”
Doogie a simple question was asked of you by wmass. No could have been a perfectly logical answer but you favor long wordly prose and statements to most everything. { Tip: of course when somebody answers a question with one of there own..BINGO} nuff’ said. Do you watch baseball? Do you call balls and strikes from your livingroom? Do you get my analogy? This 3 pack of questions ought to get your keyboard a humming. ( wink) . Try to get away from Stafford a next year and explore a little. Maybe the 125 open event coming to Thunder Road next year, You may like it. LOL Happy Birdday to you.
I was too wordy? Whoa, never heard that before.
Glad you’re back porcupine. No one can craft taunts and mockery in a more unique and entertaining manner then you. At this stage it’s almost an insult to NOT be at the business end of one of your barbs.
Regarding your suggestions on what to say, how to say it, where to go and how far I should travel to enjoy what you think I should be enjoying refer to rule no. 1 of the comment section.
Cheers!
NEWSFLASH!!!! MH DID NOT WIN @ MYRTLE BEACH.
A C&P from Speed51
On Friday night, Catalano appeared poised for a victory in the 35-lap race for the ground pounders. However, a late caution led to Catalano spinning his tires on the restart, surrendering the lead and the win to Matt Hirschman.
I hope FACTS aren’t to prickly for some here.
From Speed 51
Saturday night at Myrtle Beach Speedway (SC) was a chance at redemption for Tommy Catalano, and he cashed in for the victory in the 40-lap Modified feature, the second Modified race of the Myrtle Beach 400 Weekend.
On Friday night, Catalano appeared poised for a victory in the 35-lap race for the ground pounders. However, a late caution led to Catalano spinning his tires on the restart, surrendering the lead and the win to Matt Hirschman.
“Last night, we were thinking it was going to be a good day,” Catalano said. “We had quick time in practice and sat on the pole. I spun my tires with five to go on the restart and gave up the lead. I kind of lost track a little bit there.”
Saturday was déjà vu for the Ontario, New York driver. Again, Catalano was fast in practice and took the pole. Again, a late caution threatened to sour a runaway victory, as the yellow flag flew with ten laps to go.
“I was thinking the same thing in the car,” Catalano said about the late caution, concerned about the chance of a repeat disappointment. “I wanted to make sure it didn’t happen tonight.”
This time, however, Catalano, had no issues on the restart, holding off none other than Hirschman for the victory.
Crazy, I hope the FACTS aren’t to prickly for you so next time please feel free to tell the whole story not just the half you want us to hear and believe!
Humpy dump, Nice Doogie like response ( the prose that knows). I simply was correcting what your brother DaDuuh posted that Matt didn’t win at MB. That was simply not true. Nothing more than that.
Tommy Cat ( who honed his craft on the “lowly” ROC btw) was right there with Matt in time the whole weekend. BFD. He should have been being in the car he raced was the former 7NY that Jon McKennedy just beat Pee Dee at Concord. How’s that suit ya? Now you have the whole story Plus+
LOL!!!!
Crazy, you are easier to ignite than nitromethane. MH did not win all races in Myrtle Beach!!!
LOL!!!!
LOL!!!
DaReal, you are more clueless than anybody thought. I never claimed he won them all, you said he didn’t win there. he did. And… nitro methane is harder to ignite than gasoline and that’s way top fuelers start on methanol. Meaning it doesn’t light that easy. Do you know ANYTHING?
FYI: It usually takes two 65 amp magnetos and two spark plugs per cylinder in a modern Top Fuel or Funny Car engine using nitromethane to get combustion.
FYI: nitro burns very slowly, when compared to other common fuels, hence the two spark plugs. Has to do with something called a flame front.
Fuel flashpoints in degrees (F)
Gasoline -45
Diesel 100-130
No 2 fuel oil 126-204
Bio Diesel 266
Propane -156
Butane -76
Methyl Alchohol 52
Nitromethane 95
Clearly were the porcupine to have nitromethane characteristics he would not present an inordinate fire hazard at room temperature.
Puncture wounds is another matter.
Can someone PLEASE check my math!! 10 races ,8 first place (7 in a row) and 2 second places..HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYBODY….
Sybil, there is a YUGE difference in flashpoint and flame front speeds. YUGE!
Flash point and flame front speed ….apples and oranges.
Combustion chamber shape has a huge influence flame propagation.
A hemi needs two because of the lack of quench area and the swirl it induces.
A better homogenization of the mixture insures a complete burn and lowers emissions.
In a top fuel engine the fuel consumption is so great the chance of “putting the fire out” is so great the trouble of having 2 spark plugs per cylinder is needed. A cylinder with the fire out will hydro lock
and will result in the cylinder head being blown off. You’ve seen it.
Be that as it may I thought the information on nitromethane as opposed to other common fuels was interesting and thought I’d pass it on.
Flame front and the flash point under pressure otherwise calls for a chemist or engineer to explain so I’m out.
On the other hand I’m cooking the turkey this year and that I feel more comfortable with. Cooking it upside down in a bag and placing rosemary, sage, lemons and garlic on the inside for flavor. Could be a disaster but nothing ventured nothing gained.
Bon appetite!
Nod to Crazy and Eddie for knowing that nitro is in fact not easy at all to ignite.
Crazy, two spark plugs per cylinder increases the amount of fuel burn. You’ll never understand that.
Crazy wrote, “A cylinder with the fire out will hydro lock” LOL. That’s dumb. When top fuel cylinders lose fire, I see raw fuel coming out the header. See it all the time.
Top fuelers don’t blow off cylinder heads, they blow off the intakes and blowers, usually when an intake valve goes bad and fire gets in the intake. That’s because nitro ignites so easily.
Drag racing is what I grew up on. Nitro does not ignite easily. You can hit nitro with a open flame and it will not burn; I’ve seen that demonstrated. However heat it, compress it into a very small space with some air, and provide a monstrous spark and it will literally explode. The “nitro” part is a derivative of nitroglycerin – CH3NO2. Two plugs ignite the mix as well as prolong the burn. Raw fuel will come out of the header when a cylinder loses fire, however float and/or bend a valve and you will see heads and/or blowers come off the block and/or rods come through the block and oil pan.
Sybil, roasting turkey with the breast down is the best!!!! Do low temperature, long cook time for the best results. Low and slow.
Crazy, a fuel load only has so much time to burn, and since nitro burns so slow, light it off in two places to get more of it to burn. doh.
Actually, dareal, you are not correct. The reason for the 2 plugs is that 90% of the fuel in the cylinder during a run is still in LIQUID form, only 10% is vapor. The 2 plugs are required to produce enough heat to light the liquid as well as the vapor. The burn rates of gas, meth, and nitro are very similar.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1009-8000hp-top-fuel-engine/
I got a nod from Mr Dugotti himself . Nice…..That’s better than a partridge in a pair tree.
(or a Stafford seasonal pass so I could come sit with my boy).
” If you’ve never experienced the raw power of a pair of Top Fuel cars blistering the dragstrip, the initial sound pressure shock wave blasts you in the chest and assaults your eardrums.”
Like many here that have attended a show in Raceway Park in days past I too can recall not being prepared for the gut shaking vibrations those Funny Car and Top Fuel monsters delivered having only seen it on TV. Nor did I grasp what engineering went into the engines as I watched them broken down between rounds. I still don’t even after reading the article Rich provided but a nod to him as well for bringing something to the table. The detonation following and driving the piston all the way down the engine bore in an extended explosion…….didn’t know that.
Dareal endorsing cooking the bird upside down? Well that gives me pause given his record on accuracy on pretty much everything including what started this diversion. Awe what the heck I’ll try it anyway.
I know you hate rhetorical hugs porcupine especially mine. And I’ve tried to be mad at you but with little success. I just love what comes out of that crazy head of yours when the grenade goes off delivering shrapnel that includes kernels of wisdom, sharp barbs and humor. Pain in the ass but smart and funny.
Stafford’s schedule is out. 3 Opens, one less VMRS race. Now if we can just get Hirschman to visit why would I want to go anywhere else.
RichC, do you have comprehension deficiencies or did you not read the article you posted?
From the article, “Armstrong reinforced this concept. He says, “We used to have problems with head gaskets on our old Top Alcohol engines that never happened with the fuel engines. We realized that nitro burned slower. The horsepower doesn’t really come from peak cylinder pressure. It actually drives the piston farther down the hole because it [the fuel] keeps burning.” This longer burn is also why the header flames are so easy to see even during daylight. ”
Just as I said. Did you see where the article said nitro burned slower?
I was at Reading, PA, watching Melanie Troxel refuel her car. The nitro was spontaneously igniting in the containers she was using, she had to blow it out numerous times.
Yo, dareal, my post was in response to your statement about 2 plugs. Read it yourself, if you can comprehend more than a single syllable at a time.
Yo, RichC, there’s plenty in that article about the fact that nitro burns very slow, just as I said. You can’t deflect from that. The SLOW burn rate of nitro and 2 plugs are related. The article does not go into great detail about why the benefit of 2 plugs. There really are far more details. Things like flame fronts, propagation velocity, waves, acoustics, etc. and all those technical details and math are really above the 4th-6th grade reading level of the target audience. I can teach, but I can’t make you understand.
If you could understand you might be able to teach. “The tremendous amount of fuel present in the cylinders demands an immense amount of current flow to spark the combustion process” and “People don’t know this, but nitro, alcohol, and gasoline all have very similar burn rates,” Miller says. “In fact, nitro is in between gasoline and methanol. All that lead [ignition timing] is due to the liquid fuel.”. Reading comprehension, dareal. Nitro burns slower than alcohol, agreed, but that is NOT the reason for multiple plugs. And I do realize that you have the comprehension of a 4th to 6th grader. You don’t have to remind us.
The reason for two spark plugs is to burn a larger volume of fuel in a given cylinder. More fuel and more air equals more power. When nitro cars fire up, do a burnout, back up, and make a run. they will go through 15+ gallons of fuel in the process. Th fuel pumps will move up to 85 gpm, as in gallons per minute. By design, some of the fuel is used for cooling the cylinder. If all the fuel is burnt in a cylinder, a piston will burn and melt along with it.
RichC, for your enlightenment, from the article, “Armstrong reinforced this concept. He says, “We used to have problems with head gaskets on our old Top Alcohol engines that never happened with the fuel engines. We realized that nitro burned slower. ”
… nitro burned slower …
Darealdumbfella – Yup. Agreed. And that has what to do with spark plugs again?
RichC, burning the most fuel. Two plugs reduces the distance the flame fronts have to travel, hence burning more fuel. doh. You’ll never understand.