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Stafford Motor Speedway officials on Monday announced a penalty from Friday’s 40-lap NASCAR Whelen All-American Series feature.
Second place finisher Michael Gervais Jr. of Southbury was disqualified from his second place finish.
In a post-race inspection Gervais’ car was found to have “an unapproved brake caliper mounting location” according to a release from the track.
Gervais was penalized to the last place position for the night (23rd).
The revised finish moved Keith Rocco of Wallingford to second place and Woody Pitkat of Stafford to third.
Rowan Pennink of Huntingdon Valley, Pa. won the event.
Lol, brake caliper mounting location isn’t even specified in the stafford SK rule book. And if tech is using the NWMT rule book as a template they should at least be consistent and DQ the rest of the field for using illegal tethers. Sounds like the mall cops attempted to lay down a law that doesn’t exist for something that offers zero performance advantage. What a joke.
Probably 1less car this week,the mall cops and there leader strike again
Very well said Mr Joker ! ! !
So now as of Friday nite there using Tour rules check the roof angle and height of every Sk. And it makes a difference on a 1/2 mile track.
Rules are rules
You put calipers anywhere
I only go there for the tour shows now to watch my son Sizzler weekend i saw Glenns car
they were mounted that way when they came in 2nd the next time i was there i went into
tech and hugged him they were mounted that way i’m allmost 70 but i’m not blind yet
this is something that they should have been pulled over to the side and told mount them the
other way next week hope the person that bitched about it is happy.
everyone complains when people don’t get DQ’d. Now they complain when they do? Rules are Rules. There was a tech memo about the teathers by the way.
Inconsistent and over exuberant officials strike again at Stafford. Make that the headline. Are you kidding me?? Officials go through and approve the car before the season starts. Did the placement of the caliper give him an advantage? No way. Fine him, tell them to change it to what they want but to place to last for that is BS. The 66 team had too high, illegal spoiler height. He wins, the say lower it for next week. The 59 wins and is 1/8 inch low after the race, went out fine before the race, gets a DQ. The officiating is bad. If they were judges in our society, you could get the death penalty for J walking!! If the car is illegal yes, DQ the guy. But if there is a rule violation, you should have other levels of penalty you can assess vs an outright DQ. And please, be consistent!! They turn the blind eye to whom they want and nail everyone else.
Now, the crap shoot of tech is the most interesting part of a racing night!! Great!
So that moves Rocco up a spot. Looks like stafford is trying to help him with his national points
Dont point out other cheaters when you’ve been caught….Makes you sound like a Baby.
First off i don’t think Rocco’s national standing had 1 second of thought by the Stafford officials.
Second, did you ever think that maybe he was already pulled to the side and warned? Either way it sucks for him but at least it was from second and not a win.
Believe me, I’m not happy about the track inventing rules to take away an idea you might have come up with to make your car better. For that matter, someone said it wasn’t a performance advantage. I don’t even know what it was and i’m pretty sure they thought it was an advantage or they would have had it like everyone else.
There is no rule mentioning the caliper placement so the only thing I can think of is they were warned previous and they didn’t change it.
I’ve been in the situation and change it when they say change it or you will be disqualified next week. Not happy about it but all the other competitors are crying hard enough to make them do it. Sometimes that is what it comes down to, lets not fool ourselves.
So I was thinking the same thing everyone here has been thinking.
There’s a caliper mount location rule? Yes, sadly there is. If you look to the NWMT rules, it states that the front calipers must be mounted to the rear of the spindles.
And for those saying it doesn’t matter, it actually does. If you think about rotational force, mounting the front calipers to the front of the spindles, the rotational force will actually try to drive the tires into the surface even harder. More force=more grip, well, to a point. You can apply too much force and overcome the slip angle grip. With the calipers mounted to the rear of the spindle, you actually have some, not a lot, of negative downward force acting on the tire(think of it as some lift) which is overcome by weight transfer.
I believe but not certain but aren’t all LFR chassis like that? The chassis on their web site has them in the front. My first Chassis Dynamic car had rear steer and the calipers in the front and that was back in 1986 so this is not a new idea. Also some guys were running them on the bottom in the rear to lower center of gravity…. NASCAR is so not right
Stu the calipers were on the car since ptactics the week before the sizzler and NO we were NEVER WARNED to change them
Yes rules are rules.
But if they’re not outlined in your specific rulebook how are they automatically applied to you?
And not quite. Up, down, forward, backwards mounting doesn’t matter in terms of wheel load. Lower they are lower the COG, only true advantage to be gained.
The braking force created by the caliper against the rotor must pass through the upper and lower control arm anti/pro dive angles instant center.
The tire is going see the same amount of load no matter what. Anti/pro dive determines how much the of the load the suspension links resist vs the front springs.
Only way to change the amount the caliper contributes to the wheel loading is via piston, master or rotor sizes.
Basically the officials here have declared anti and pro dive via using the brakes is somehow illegal even though its impossible.
Which is wrong and wrong X2 because there’s no specific mention of how they should be mounted in the 2016 Stafford SK rule book.
Joker you sound like a very smart and observant person. Just guessing you have done your homework over the years
Wow I never would have thought of that ! ! !
Seems to me like anyone that does do their homework would read the preface of the Stafford rules. Particularly the part that says “All 2016 NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour (NWMT) rules will be enforced for the SMS SK Modifieds®, with the following changes and/or additions:”
If your not sure about a rule call the track before you do it. End of story!!
Car owner did not do it… Chassis builder (LFR) designed it that way.
who knows when they change rules??? there was no rule on location of brake until?
Very interesting posts here. Sounds like we definatelly have some intuative race fans that take this game very seriously… Impressive!!! Keep em coming please:-)
Look at NASCAR they Dq nobody just fine them for non performance rule violations things should change but the bottom line here All decisions are final.
Interesting…
If I Google image search, I find this LFR car with a front mounted caliper:
https://www.lfrchassis.com/wp-content/uploads/LFR-01-00-CHMD-1-250×250.jpg
I also find this Speed 51 photo of Bobby Santos’ tour car, with it either rear mounted and hidden by the hub, or missing:
http://cdn3.24live.co/images/2016/04/09/img_57091c720aa71.jpg
Is there more than one factory option?
Yes there’s 2 types of spindles. It’s about a $400 expense per side to change to rear mout ones. Unless LFR has a jig option that allows you to mount up rear facing tabs on existing front mount spindles. The 15 here is also going to need to redo the way their calipers are lined. Bleeder screws will be on the bottom if they simply just swap the calipers to the back.
Pretty silly all the way around to have to do and spend for something so nominal.
The 15 was built over the winter of 2014-2015 with front mounted calipers. Driven by Jeff Rocco and by Ron Silk early in 2015. Pictures from Dms photos from 5/1/15 show the calipers. Car was parked after 5-6 races and rebuilt this year with the same brake system. Was inspected prior to last year and this year with no mention. It has been said we changed then after a 2nd place finish in early August of this year. (Passed tech that night). False, as I have dated pictures as the car was being built. This past weekend tech was carb, spacer plate, and fuel sample. All of which passed. Why the brake issue? I’m not going to open that can of worms, but consistency in who gets penalized, warned, disqualified needs to be consistent to all competitors through all divisions. Before anyone chimes in, yes by tour rules, it does state rear mounted calipers, I won’t deny that. What is done, is done. The 15 will be back this Friday, with FRONT mounted calipers.
From the NWMT 2016 rulebook: “Only one (1) brake caliper per wheel using only two (2) brake pads per
caliper will be permitted. Front brake calipers must be mounted on the rear of the
spindles on both the left side and right side.”
If NWMT rules are being used, there you have it.
Thanks for the information.
joker it actually makes the nose set quicker by dragging it down and as for having to change the calipers on the mod calipers if u know them there are 4 bleeders 2 top 2 bottom
IfYouOnlyKnew
Sure.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-att-us&ei=HgnaV8_nCsPimAH4lLyYBQ&q=pfc+calipers+red&oq=pfc+calipers+red&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..33i160k1.1981.3945.0.4335.4.4.0.0.0.0.150.552.0j4.4.0….0…1c.1j4.64.mobile-gws-serp..0.4.549…0i22i30k1.hvH_hE23z2Q#imgrc=70L2TUbSsavvdM%3A
ifyouonlyknew- only some styles have bleeders at both. Matt and joker have 2 theories and I have heard people swear on both sides. Either way it’s nice to see a few people hold a civilized debate on this site that requires some neurons.
And with a highly motivated car owner , pissed off crew and a driver that is not taking any prisoners
Mazda said, ” The 15 will be back this Friday, with FRONT mounted calipers.”
Why would you do that if the rules clearly state REAR mounted calipers?
IfYouOnlyKnew said: “joker it actually makes the nose set quicker by dragging it down…”
and
Matt said: “And for those saying it doesn’t matter, it actually does. If you think about rotational force, mounting the front calipers to the front of the spindles, the rotational force will actually try to drive the tires into the surface even harder. More force=more grip, well, to a point. You can apply too much force and overcome the slip angle grip. With the calipers mounted to the rear of the spindle, you actually have some, not a lot, of negative downward force acting on the tire(think of it as some lift) which is overcome by weight transfer.”
and both are completely wrong.
There is no way the force between the rotor and brake pads can cause a resultant load on the tires that is dependent on and altered by the location of the caliper. No way. The forces between the pads and rotor are equal and opposite, no matter where the caliper is placed. The force from the rotor imparted to the caliper tends to rotate the spindle in the direction of the wheel, that is all. That rotation will be the same no matter where the caliper is located. That is all.
You are correct Dareal. I miss typed it. Rear mounted calipers. My mistake.
Meant rear mounted.
For those of you, such as Matt and IfYouOnlyKnew, that think the location of the caliper affects wheel loading, think about what the wheel bearings do and don’t do.
Interesting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEIk0hJ7eGk
Spec-tre
Thank you for sharing this video
So, folks have to read the rules and the rules have to be consistently enforced.
Would be interesting to know why NASCAR specifies rear mounted calipers.
I prefer the rotors rear of the spindle, because the rotor is the hottest as it exits the caliper, and can then get the blast of air on the hottest part of the rotor for most effective cooling.
“The 15 will be back this Friday”
On a side note, the 15 looked nice before, but I’ve said before… That wrap is dynamite! Good luck tomorrow night.
Thanks again to all who provided actual race car information, and Spec-tre for the informative video link. I’ve really enjoyed it and it makes my grandstand experience a lot better.
I was told that it had something to do with the tethers. Don’t know if that is accurate or not. The 15 had tethers even with the incorrectly mounted calipers, so don’t see how that is a valid reason. An answer from nascar would be ideal.
Good what ever says I prefer rotors to the rear of the spindle? Since you seem to correct everyone can you tell me who makes that suspension?
The inconsistency with the officiating at stafford is appalling. Just last week I heard that David Arute FAILED going over the ride height pad and was allowed to continue without adjusting while another competitor had an issue, was told to fix it for this week and was then subsequently told to have it fixed before his feature last week. Maybe they should start with focusing on something simple like let’s say….. tire inventory.
Hey Big Sexxy, first off nice name = you’re a class act. Second off this is how BS rumors and lies start. What you just posted about David Arute is 100% false. You can’t just go online and make stuff up, the #75 makes ride height every week, if you’re concerned about the #75’s ride height stand there before the feature and watch. That car has NEVER had a ride height problem. If you have a problem with the David Arute, stop by his pit stall and tell him. If you want to continue to hide behind a keyboard I feel sorry for the miserable life you live.
Big Sexxxy is so right.We all watch the 75 skl FAIL pre race ride height.And they waved him right on bey.The height gauge went CLANK.against the frame rail.LMAO.Tire inventory would be something too really look at.Boy is that a HUGE problem.
This is crazy! The car meets ride height every week! the idiot tech mall cop whacks the ride height tool against the bars when he pulls it out! I stand there every week! Go look at that car tonight, go look at that car any night, measure the ride height with your own tools, do whatever you want, but please stop posting stuff that is not true
Modman sorry your impression of me is that I am a keyboard warrior but my information comes from a pretty reliable source that he failed last week. For your knowledge I have been at stafford for every event this year in the pits and have seen enough to know I have seen to much as far as inconsistent rulings from officials. Guessing you also believe Paul Arute isn’t cheating either with that puff of white smoke that comes from the car every time he gets back into the gas between 3 and 4.
Modman you clearly work on his car or are involved with his race team and of course will defend him. You cannot call the guy working tech a mall cop either. If he is not doing his job then it should be brought to the attention of stafford and they should make sure their techs are doing their jobs accurately. But in reality what teenager is going to tell the owner of the tracks kid that he didn’t make ride height? Not many if they want to keep their jobs I would assume.