In 2020 White Mountain Motorsports Park in North Woodstock, N.H. proved a savior of the NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour schedule.
After the onset of COVID-19 global pandemic restrictions, the management at White Mountain stepped up to add two Whelen Modified Tour events to their schedule in 2020. It marked the first visits to the track ever for the series.
But the track that hosted more than 20 percent of the ultimately nine-event Whelen Modified Tour schedule in 2020 will not return to the series schedule in 2021.
Cris Michaud, managing partner of White Mountain, confirmed to RaceDayCT Saturday morning that management at White Mountain has ended negotiations with NASCAR for a 2021 Whelen Modified Tour event at the track.
“I gave [Whelene Modified Tour series director Jimmy Wilson] my final offer,” Michaud said. “He said he respectfully declined.”
Michaud said the track had been prepared to host the series for a Saturday July 3 event in 2021.
“He gave me a price that we were kind of willing to do,” Michaud said. “It wasn’t a set in stone deal. I got together with the bookkeeper on what we did for numbers last year and it just wasn’t going to work for us.”
Said Wilson: “We are very appreciative of Cris Michaud and White Mountain for hosting two of our races in 2020. Hopefully things can work out to take the NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour back in the future.”
Michaud, who also operates the American-Canadian Tour, partnered with Pro All Stars Series operator Tom Mayberry to promote two Whelen Modified Tour events at Thompson Speedway in 2020. The pair oversaw the running of a Whelen Modified Tour event on Sept. 3 and also the final Whelen Modified Tour event of the season as part of the Sunoco World Series weekend Oct. 9-11.
The Michaud/Mayberry partnership will continue at Thompson in 2021, but likely withouth the Whelen Modified Tour as part of the schedule. The group has announced plans to run a six-event schedule at Thompson for 2021 with an aggressive focus on Tour Type Open Modified events.
It had been rumored that the group was still looking at the possibility of a mid-week Whelen Modified Tour event at Thompson in 2021. Michaud said the door is essentially closed on that possibility also.
“[Wilson] hasn’t talked to us about Thompson,” Michaud said. “I haven’t heard anything from him on Thompson so I think we’re just ready to move on from that and be done.”
Michaud and Mayberry will run a $10,000 to win 150-lap Tour Type Open Modified event as part of the Icebreaker weekend. They also announced the return of the Thompson 300 as a Tour Type Open Modified event for the Sunoco World Series weekend. The Thompson 300 will be a $20,000 to win event and will also feature $15,000 in lap prizes creating a possibility for a team to win as much $35,000 for the event. Their four Wednesday night events in 2021 at Thompson will each feature a $5,000 to win Tour Type Open Modified feature.
The 2021 season will mark the first time since the inception of the Whelen Modified Tour that the division will not be part of Icebreaker weekend at Thompson. The Whelen Modified Tour has been the showcase event for Icebreaker weekend every year the event has been run since 1985 (the Icebreaker was not held in 2000).
Six events for the 2021 Whelen Modified Tour season have been announced. NASCAR announced has Whelen Modified Tour events at Martinsville (Va.) Speedway (April 8), Lancaster (N.Y) Speedway on July 31 and Richmond Raceway (Sept. 10). Stafford Speedway has announced three Whelen Modified Tour events for 2021 on Wednesday on April 25, Aug. 6 and Sept. 25.
Riverhead (N.Y.) Raceway management has confirmed that they will have two events on the Whelen Modified Tour schedule. Jennerstown (Pa.) Speedway is also expected to host one series event next year. NASCAR has not an announced an expected release date for the full 2021 Whelen Modified Tour schedule.
White Mountain and Thompson are part of a handful of tracks that were on the original Whelen Modified Tour schedule in 2020 or the eventual amended schedule that currently have not agreed to an event in 2021 or have been confirmed to not be on the schedule in 2021.
South Boston (Va.) Speedway and Iowa Speedway – both part of the 2020 Whelen Modified Tour schedule in 2020 – will not be on the 2021 schedule.
New Hampshire Motor Speedway executive vice president and general manager Dave McGrath confirmed Friday that the Whelen Modified Tour is still not on the schedule for the NASCAR Cup Series Foxwoods Resorts Casino 301 weekend in Loudon, which is scheduled for July 16-18, 2021.
New Hampshire Motor Speedway has also announced that the Full Throttle Weekend, which included the Whelen Modified Tour Musket 200, will not return in 2021.
It’s also unclear where things stand with a return to Seekonk (Mass.) Speedway for the Whelen Modified Tour.
Monadnock Speedway in Winchester, N.H. was a late addition to the Whelen Modified Tour schedule in 2020, hosting one event. Track consultant Jeff Zuidema said Friday that no agreement has been reached with NASCAR for a 2021 event at Monadnock.
Michaud and Mayberry. Late Model guys. Out of nowhere seem to be making decisions that fundamentally change the trajectory of the NWMT. First as saviors, now not so much.
One thing is clear. NASCAR ain’t your daddy anymore at least in these here parts. Each event seems to be an individual negotiation sharing a lot more in common with teeth pulling then offering a universally popular and profitable event.
Quick, somebody get a wellness check for 🌈JD🌈.
In other factual news, way back in the Spring of 2020 the experts forecast that the #TrumpPandemic virus 🦠 COVID-19 winter of ’20-’21 would get worse, much worse. The experts are indeed correct.
This isn’t supposed to happen in the USA, yet the USA is the worst of the advanced industrial nations.
I agree with Doug. These guys are now ruining the WMT. Ending decades old traditions at Thompson. Now no race at WMMP, a track that was universally welcomed by fans and competitors. They also pulled PASS and ACT from Star Speedway. A monopoly is never good and that is exactly what we have here in New England amongst a few owners.
I’m sure a TT to WMMP announcement isn’t far behind. Seekonk has already lined up TT, ACT and PASS to each go 100 laps during the Haunted 300 weekend.
Shawn,
This seems to come down to $$$, is it a set fee for all tracks, or is it what ever Wilson feels it is worth per location?
JD,
How on earth can you say these guys are ruining the Whelen Modified Tour? These guys stepped up to the plate last year and put on four of the nine Whelen Modified Tour events that actually took place. If not for these guys last year the Whelen Modified Tour would have had five events in total. I’ll never understand the logic of fans or participants who believe track operators or event promoters should lose money or just break even for the greater good of the series, which is basically what you’re saying. I think obviously if they thought they could turn a profit on events they would be scheduling them. So because these guys looked at the numbers and surmised they would struggle to turn a profit on these events at the price being offered by NASCAR you’re going to blame them for “ruining” the Whelen Modified Tour? That’s a pretty skewed logic right there.
Rich,
I’m not privy to the exact dollar figures involved in negotiations. It’s my understanding right now there there’s a starting point based on track capacity. Beyond that, I can’t speak for how NASCAR is setting the expectations for events.
No ruining. No bad guys or good guys. A market changing. The NWMT needs to compete in the one that exists not the one they knew to exist in the past. They can’t be happy someone is there to fill the void, put on good shows and make a buck in the process.
It’s a little thing I like to call Trumpism……..errrrrr….no……..that doesn’t sound right. Sorry about that. Capitalism. Right, capitalism came first. Sometimes it’s hard to remember that. Remnants of post Trump destress disorder.
And now those four races are gone in 2021 plus two more at Thompson. As it stands now these guys have zero WMT races in 2021. Some up north believe that this is all by design and not about $$$ at all.
I 100% understand the business/profit side of the business. There may be more than that going on here. Either way, less races stinks for all fans.
TR scheduled was released last week and to nobody’s surprise there were no modifieds on their schedule either despite some earlier rumors out there.
See you at Stafford.
JD,
Oh so you’re saying these guys scheduling events last year and then not scheduling any events this year is part of their long planned diabolical scheme to take down the Whelen Modified Tour? Ok bud. I guess that fits the norm of 2020 where everything is apparently part of some dark web conspiracy plan huh? I think you’ve been reading too much about rigged elections.
I am a little surprised that the Tour is not coming to Thompson in 2021. The September show was one of the best races in a long time. The stands and pits seemed to have plenty of people in them. The World Series Looked like it was heavy attendance for three days… Really thought the Wednesday night Tour show would fit in real well with the 6 open shows… Well lets hope Wilson would contact the Thompson Powers that be, cool heads prevail and the Traditional Tour Race on Wednesday, Budweiser 150 would at Thompson this Summer. Thompson High Banks are the Best place to showcase the Modifieds .
OK well NASCAR has always had a standard MINIMUM purse to run A TOUR RACE,I believe in early years it was 65 to 75k, then when tracks scheduling races dwindled down to the ct tour or about 12 races a year along came FLASH RACES with reduced purses to HELP but then owners complained that NOW THEY were being shortchanged Just like Myrtle Beach last year.
Of course 2020 with the pandemic had NASCAR doing anything to schedule races and with BOTH TRI Track and the Stafford Opens being successful only fuels the debate, so willl the WMT be a 10 race tour again, how long will STAFFORD continue to bring in the WMT if their opens and THOMPSON’s 6 races are a success??????????
OMG……..
I think track operators are seeing the cost of the WMT, and saying screw them. We can do our own stuff and turn a better profit. Tri track has created an idea in promoters heads that we can do better on our own. Pay a good purse and there are plenty of modifieds out there to come run. Tri track has single handedly hurt the tour more than anything, by trickle down thinking. It won’t be long before Stafford says we don’t need them, we will do our own tour type shows.
If anybody is killing the WMT it’s probably NASCAR. There’s going to be plenty of other series racing in New Hampshire next year, it’s up to NASCAR if they want the WMT to be part of any of that.
I have more understanding for an independently owned short track saying they can’t make it work financially than an SMI track.
Look, No matter how you look at it, pro WMT, or anti NMT, I think that the pandemic is ruling here, not any partnership collusion.
We here all know that the WMT comes with a premium capitol outlay by track operators to get a tour race. (Although no one can get the exact figures, so that’s assumed)
So, if I’m a track owner, if I’m going to commit to that premium, in an economy, in the middle of a pandemic, and I have no idea, if I can have 25%, 50%, 75%, of people allowed through the gate, due to a state mandate in the middle of a pandemic, I open my check book? And that after a tumultuous 2020 season?
Hell, I just want, as a track owner, to pay the bills and live to fight another day, after this is over. If I’m a track owner, during this pandemic, I’m taking a pass on a huge capitol outlay this year, just because of the state of things. It doesn’t mean I won’t be back, we just need to get some normalcy back, where I-can be “relatively “ confident, that I can promote, to full capacity, my gate. I can’t blame any track promoter on taking a pass right now on a premium. Yes, there are never any guarantees. But who can blame any operator for for trying to keep their business afloat, and bypassing a premium, when the waters are so choppy here? Let’s see what happens when society can get back to a relative (hopefully soon) normalcy. Maybe, those guys taking that pass right now, will survive to still be around, and can entertain a WMT event in the future, because they made a prudent business now.
BTW, I love the tour, and this kills me. Not having Thompson on the tour, is a heartbreaker for me, just for the record. But I can’t predict the future through these times, and I don’t think any track owner can’t either. Jmo.
The one that baffles me is NHMS. If they cant make it work financially with the awesome racing and huge grandstands with an already established large crowd on site for a cup weekend what chance does a 1/4 mile bullring with a much smaller grandstand capacity have. I didnt know the purse was established based on grandstand capacity that is interesting. I wonder if Thompson and Stafford got reduced price shows given they were only allowed 25 to 50 percent capacity by the state. I was surprised Stafford went with 3 Whelen tour races next year. I really thought they would reduce the WMT shows given the success they have found with their tour type opens. Thompson going the open tour types will be interesting. See how that is supported given a good percentage of them are mid week shows. Between thompson and Stafford there will be a bunch of tour type races just without the big brand name. If they are full fields and a bunch of good drivers are there what does it matter. Honestly, Nascar has to lock down their drivers much like WOO or Dirt does. Not allow them to run other non nascar events. WoO pays platinum drivers a certain amount each race, gives them provisionals, makes them eligible for season point money in exchange the drivers cant support rival shows within a certain distance and time frame from their shows. Nascar did do this to some small extent frequently adding shows over already established non nascar tour type shows this past season. If you were running for Nascar points you had to support Nascar no matter where they were or what little purse they offered over the more palatable local show. Any word on Lee. That was one I wasnt expecting. How about Wall?
Hey idiots, and that means you, …
The #TrumpPandemic is in control, and these promoters, track owners, etc. simply can not make a commitment when they have no control over what is going to happen. Whining about what tracks and races there are and aren’t is preposterous. Any dates floated now have little chance of ever happening. The next several months are going to be brutal, requiring several more months of recovery. After what happens these next couple months, people should have learned to be very concerned with social gatherings of just about any kind.
I doubt any track is paying a premium. Stafford didn’t sign up for 3 by bending over, pulling down their shorts and saying give it to me NASCAR. Especially since Jackie Arute told the world the NWMT purse was the main problem.
Covid19? What we see now is not what we’ll be facing next spring. The projections were right in May when the mood was sour on racing. The curve turns mid January to mid February and get’s better into spring. We’re not as ignorant as we were last time around although it may seem so sometimes.
I’d bet Stafford made their numbers work at 50% capacity for the Sizzler that I believe is the worse case for April.. Getting progressively better into the nice weather and introduction of the vaccine. I’d bet with StaffordSpeedway.TV they leveraged that to get a better piece of the online pie. Perhaps production related. Contingencies as well depending on the Covid19 circumstances.
WMMP doesn’t have the flexibility Stafford, Riverhead or perhaps Seekonk have. The are not part of modified country, don’t have the same capacity and are on a tighter budget leash. And they don’t need the modifieds to be successful.
This WMMP deal is something anticipated that was never much of a real thing like TTOMS replacing the NWMT at Stafford.
How bad is it for the NWMT? What was the mood after the Myrtle debacle and what happened?
Under estimate NASCAR at your own peril. It’s not as good as you hoped nor bad as this news makes you feel at this point in time.
Seems to me NASCAR wanted more money than the track was willing to pay. Smart move by the track in these uncertain times. It’s strictly a business move, and a smart one at that.
Rob p, I agree with your brief and to the point post. It’s all about revenue and if the revenue is not there a smart business man will not make the investment.
Do the math; if a track has a seating capacity of lets say 5,000 and the state it is domiciled in is only allowing 25% attendance (1,250 people) then who makes up the other 75% of the revenue required to run a given race event? If the profitability is not there you don’t do it.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Since people are talking about the pandemic so much, I’ll throw this in here. It’s going to be real bad over the next couple of months but I’ve heard through a few different news sources that if the vaccines are as effective as they say and the rollout isn’t botched then we could have positive signs by mid to late January. All of those are big if’s at this point but there’s a chance we could be in a much better position by spring.
Doug, respectfully, and not trying to piss you off, I hope you are correct about “Covid19? What we see now is not what we’ll be facing next spring.”
I just don’t know if anybody knows that for sure. I certainly don’t. While the vaccines look promising, by all accounts, it’s still going to take time, even if vaccines are wildly successful. These are very uncharted waters, with this particular virus. Probably a great part of 2021 by all accounts, that we may get to herd immunity, according to experts.
My only point of my post was, owners have to make decisions based on the past year, and the information that they have in front of them now. (When it comes to spending premium $$ to get the tour) I think most are deciding, that going with the premium right now, isn’t worth the gamble of their wallet, given real time facts currently.
On the flip side of my argument, based on what I said, I gotta give it to you. Why did Stanford sign up for 3,, when others distanced themselves? Puzzling for sure! I have no answer. Kudos.
But, I am open minded and will take correction.
Nope, don’t think the tour at all is dead. Over the years, we have written them off a bunch of times it seems. Yet, it comes back. Glad it does.
I am not a track owner or promoter, but my sense is that most, with a few exceptions, are stepping back this year, taking a breather, and waiting to see how things shake out in 2021. Going with a cheaper “option” if you will, to minimize their risk.
Respectfully, and just trying to be devils advocate is all, jmo. Always fun
To debate.
To me this as all about $$ more than anything. There’s two factors plus a wildcard: The WMT wants more money than tracks feel are justified or profitable, the Open shows are doing well and giving tracks a viable alternative to the WMT, and the virus ultimately controls everything at the moment. If it’s $60-70K for the WMT, that’s plenty to work with for an open event. If the track can’t have full stands due to COVID, they can postpone or cancel an Open event without losing a ton of $$$ compared to booking the WMT. I’m guessing part of NASCAR’s requirement might be a guarantee to hold the race regardless of government fan capacity limits after what took place this year, which tracks won’t accept. NASCAR may be pricing themselves out of the market where their largest fanbase is.
Well again for 35 years NASCAR has been to TOP DOG for name brand and QUALITY teams with NO REAL THREAT to the TOP DOG part, yes MRS came as a 2nd tier and thats No offense to BATEMAN but simply a Fact, Tri Track started with LIMM and yes brought the heats, good payouts, tow MONEY BUT that was normally 4 or 5 races a year AND NASCAR could def live with those numbers, others came and went, MTS and a few others, Now Stafford does OPEN shows, Tri TRACK SPLITS TO racing guys and TT, Mulberry/Michaud take over Thompson and say we can run OPEN shows and again the 51 car LAST TT race at Stafford has alot of Promoters looking at $$$ and saying we dont neeeeeeeeeed NASCAR to have a QUALITY MOD RACE.
The schedule will be something like this: How’s the pandemic doing? Is it safe for people to gather? What are the health safety rules in place in the municipality and track(s)?
If there was one thing we, and that means the smart people, learned this recent racing season was that plans are futile. Long term plans are just about worthless.
With NASCAR you have to send them the 60 – 70 K check for Mod Tour Race. They hold the money for the purse. Then they can guarantee the purse is paid and a Promoter can’t hold the purse hostage or drive away with all the gate money and purse money as has happened in the past… They also have control of your money and the race as leverage on the date of race and rain date or what ever … NASCAR is not your friend..
Doug said:
Especially since Jackie Arute told the world the NWMT purse was the main problem.
I thought Arute said the sanctioning fees paid to NASCAR is the main problem, I don’t think he mentioned the purse paid to the drivers.There is a difference. WMASS correctly stated that when the tour was created that a minimum purse was required to host an event. However, and this is important, back when NASCAR was still publishing money won by the drivers at each race, that total amount of “money won” when adding up what each driver won never equaled what was posted on top of the rundown as “Total posted awards”. The difference, which was usually 25 to 30k was the sanctioning fee.
Think about the math, the race in November paid 10k to win and 1k to start and the total purse was approximately 50k. That race, at 50k or less, paid more (Much more) than the minimum requirement for a NASCAR event. Yet to have a NASCAR event, it costs the track much more. So a track can have a much lower expense, thus, in theory, charge less at the gate and still pay more to the drivers!!
Back in early 90s to mid 2000s, I had bought a NASCAR license every year and with that I’d get the NASCAR press yearbook. In the first 5-6 years or so, that yearbook published all the money won at every race on the Modified tour ( as well as every tour) and the total amount earned by each driver in the Points payout. I remember one season when Hirschman won the championship that he won 40k in points money and that plus his total won at each event plus other various payouts brought his winnings to over $150k for the season. Not bad and I could see why running the tour would make sense financially. Then these money paid out numbers all went down, purses , points payouts, etc at a time when costs of running a tour car and haulin a team to all the unnecessary two day events were skyrocketing, and I began to think, and still do, that running the tour doesn’t make any financial sense whatsoever. Around that same time, NASCAR stopped publishing the money won in any press releases. They didn’t stop that because the money won was increasing, believe me!!!
It took a pandemic and it took a long time, but I think and hope that the tracks and drivers have come to their financial senses and continue this pushback to NASCAR continues in regards to their WMT! It’s been too many years of us fans paying high ticket prices so the track could cover the sanctioning fees! I wouldn’t mind paying the high ticket prices as much if I knew if was going towards paying the drivers! All we collectively have done (tracks, fans drivers and Whelen through the sponsorship $) for too long now is paid NASCAR pockets and what have we gotten In return?
Every part on every car when bought, a portion of the $ goes to NASCAR
The hundreds of thousands that Whelen pays to sponsor goes to NASCAR
The sanctioning fees (which when added up over a season comes to several hundred thousand) goes to NASCAR
If, all this $ taken in by NASCAR led to the drivers getting paid and getting rich, I’d say that yeah, NASCAR events are worth having
If all this $ taken in led to NASCAR helping the tracks and thus, charging fans less $ at the gate , then I’d say NASCAR events are worth attending
If, due to all this $ coming in, the races were better because they were NASCAR, them yeah, I’d be a NASCAR advocate
But none of those things have happened!!!
Dareal, you hit the bullseye.
I think some people are being misinformed regarding the vaccine, and how it will be distributed. May or early June is when they’ll start vaccinations for most of the population, and it’s going to be a long endeavor. This is all based on the vaccine getting emergency approval on December 10th. The logistical challenges of the Pfizer vaccine are going to slow things down. So far no dates for other vaccines have been announced. I think allot of track owners and promoters are airing on the side of caution and will continue to do so until some good news breaks. Hope it’s sooner rather than later. The other side is the economic damage happening now, which could affect things next season. All we can do is wait and see what happens. There will be racing next year, how much, where and when remain to be seen.
I didn’t see NASCAR stepping up to help any of these tracks that were affected by the pandemic, they just moved their races elsewhere in some cases to no sanctioned tracks. All they want to do is collect money, and don’t even care about the tracks that supported them for years and years. It wouldn’t bother me in the least if the tour dissolved.
The vaccine will go to medical personnel and first responders before the general public. Gonna take a while for general distribution and as I have stated many times the racing schedules are tentative at best for 2021.
Dadope calls people idiot’s, tells anyone that will listen how smart he is ,thinks he is always right , ‘ll bet he has a big comb over going on too , he’ll never admit he’s wrong or lost , does he remind you of anyone ???
The guys I know run NASCAR for three reasons:
1. Safety
2. Rules
3. They pay the purse
You people are getting way too excited about the vaccine. This ain’t over any time soon. The high risk people should go first.
And this vaccine may not be effective very long. This pathogen is muting very fast, and may require updated vaccines to deal with the mutations.
This is the reason Denmark just eradicated their mink farms. A new virus 🦠 mutation was found, so they decided to eradicate the mink farm population in hopes of eradicating the new coronavirus mutant.
Rob P said:
I didn’t see NASCAR stepping up to help any of these tracks that were affected by the pandemic, they just moved their races elsewhere in some cases to no sanctioned tracks. All they want to do is collect money, and don’t even care about the tracks that supported them for years and years. It wouldn’t bother me in the least if the tour dissolved.
Very well said Rob!! That’s the best comment that I’ve ever read on this site!! Thanks for that thoughtful insight!!
It’s a fraud. The election was stolen from me. Massive voter fraud. Even the FBI, and Justice department are involved. LIES all LIES. In fact, this was the most secure election in history. There were a handful of fraud cases uncovered, in every case the beneficial candidate was Donald Trump. In a Trump requested recount in Wisconsin the outcome only widened Bidens victory.
Trump’s childish behavior is, quite frankly, an embarrassment for the country, as well as a national security threat.
Although some of you may have voted for him, I truly hope that you’ve accepted the outcome, and have the common sense to know what Trump is saying is total BS.
The country is in the grip of a deadly pandemic. Rather than pulling a childish temper tantrum, Donald Trump should be trying to help the American people. Is he? Hell no, Donald Trump only cares about Donald Trump, he does not care about anyone else. January 20th cannot come soon enough, as the American people are suffering needlessly and need help
Hope everyone is safe strong and sane. Keep fighting, help will come eventually.
MASK UP
Elect said:
Dadope calls people idiot’s, tells anyone that will listen how smart he is ,thinks he is always right , ‘ll bet he has a big comb over going on too , he’ll never admit he’s wrong or lost , does he remind you of anyone ???
I stopped reading that guy’s comments months ago, but I remember his tone enough to say that you have a point!
He is a name caller like Trump is
He is condescending like Trump is
He thinks that he is the smartest guy in the room like Trump does
Goodfella isn’t a smart man. If he were, he would be able to articulate and present his points without the name calling, arrogance and condescending tone. He isn’t as smart or successful as he hoped he’d be so he comes on an anonymous internet board and pounds his chest. But , truth told, no one changes their opinion based on his posts, A grown man needing such acknowledgement is quite a sad case actually.
Do yourself a favor, Elect, and just skip reading his posts….
Elect is on to something about the irony though, huh?
The man goodfella hates so much is the man that goodfella actually behaves like!!
“I thought Arute said the sanctioning fees paid to NASCAR is the main problem, I don’t think he mentioned the purse paid to the drivers.”
Go to the 46:40 mark in the Bottom Shot podcast with Jackie Arute Phil A. Jackie never mentioned fees. He referred to “NASCAR mandated exorbitant purse money for the most part a lackluster Whelan Modified Tour event” .
That being the case does that change any of the observations you made?
Phil, on the NASCAR comment, thanks,took a while to get the wording correct to try and not offend anyone.
I was a NASCAR member for a lot of years, because I needed to be to work on a car, but saw absolutely no use for them, they just costed more money to be able to enjoy a hobby. Still had to pay full price to get in every week, just another
C-note out of my pocket to have fun each year. You’d think there would actually be a benefit to being a member, but I saw none.
8PM Sunday night. The Holiday weekend has come to a close. Hope all of you enjoyed a safe and happy holiday with family and friends. Be safe, Stay sane and MASK UP.
Hey Phil, the only people that could take offense are the idiots, the people that refuse to mask up and do what is needed to address the #TrumpPandemic.
Are you offended?
The 2021 racing season is “tentative”. Man that’s deep. Any race could get canceled at a moments notice.
Just shocking.
Wait…..I think I remember something much like this affecting racing and making it so “tentative”. Let me think. Oh yah, I’ve got it. Rain. Sometimes even snow.
Tentative……right!!!!
Now dareal is claiming he knows the guys that run NASCAR. This just keeps getting better and better and better. Talk about a complete crock of 💩!
Dareal I think you have your priorities all screwed up here. High risk first? How about the individuals that are responsible for saving peoples lives like health care workers and first responders. Don’t you think they should be protected since they are on the front lines risking their lives every day? Without them people who contracted the virus would have never had the opportunity to survive.
I think you will find the number of survivors far exceeds the number of those who lost their lives because of the high standard of professional care rendered by these individuals.
I bet it is killing you that the vaccine is coming to fruition under the Trump administration.
And for the record, I have come to the realization that Trump lost the election and he has no one to blame but himself. Now let’s see how the Biden/Harris camp does.
Phil A, great observation and your post can be summarized by the saying “birds of a feather flock together”.
There is a big difference between inclement weather and COVID -19. I can’t believe some don’t know the difference between an 🍎 and 🍊.
I wrote:
“The guys I know run NASCAR for three reasons:
1. Safety
2. Rules
3. They pay the purse”
Earl responded with, “Now dareal is claiming he knows the guys that run NASCAR. ”
Earl confirms he’s an idiot.
I’ve read the post from Phil A several times. Scathing is the only way to describe it. Good but a scathing indictment of the way NASCAR has conducted itself with regard to the NWMT.
I don’t know it’s not completely true. What it contained was a series of financial observations that make the tour seem unethical at the least if not down right dishonest. It could be spot on.
What we know is there is always a lot of talk about the NWMT fees and financial arrangements that put it in a negative light. Yet the actual amount of public information on it is close to zero. Each track knows but they sure aren’t saying boo on what arrangements they made with NASCAR.
My rating on the topic is about the same as the information bandied about regarding the vaccines. The odds of statements being manipulated and embellished to produce self serving conclusions are sky high.
In the case of the vaccine we can go to the internet and get all kinds of information. Showing that Trump is not responsible for the many Covid19 vaccines that are being developed world wide. He is responsible for implementing policies recommended by science experts to fast track vaccine development in the US. Like many countries around the world. Nor is the fact that all RNA based viruses mutate a substantial impediment to the development of effective vaccines.
NASCAR fees, purses, pre funding purses in the current situation is a different animal altogether. There is virtually no current information on that topic to make a well considered, informed case against NASCAR in the current environment.
All stop. NASCAR’s schedule is finalized and published with the announced races plus the likely races resulting in a 9 race schedule. One that includes a host of wide ranging, different sized historic tracks. As it sits, without one more race being added how is that not as good or better then any offering by any competing sanctioning group so far?
Earl wrote, “I bet it is killing you that the vaccine is coming to fruition under the Trump administration.”
Not at all. I hope these vaccines are available as soon as possible. But what I loved during this period was that the companies developing these vaccines have released statements that they are not following the guidance or pressure program of Donald Trump, but are abiding by what science requires. And in doing so, these companies removed Trump from any credit.
That’s out of your fog of comprehension.
I don’t believe I used the words “responsible” or “credit” I used the word “fruition”.
And of course the pharmaceutical companies base their research and development of drugs on scientific data. Anything else you would like to enlighten us on that we are already are aware of?
Wether or not Trump is given credit for the vaccine, the important thing is that it helps people. And indeed if he is given credit, at least he’ll have done 1 good thing for the American people. The vaccine shouldn’t be a Republican or Democrat thing, it should be an American thing. The divisions need to stop. We need to start acting like adults, put our differences aside, and get this country back where it belongs…The Greatest Country on Earth.
MASK UP!
Hey idiots, that means you management of Stafford Motor Speedway. The trumppandemic is in control and that means your 2021 season is cancelled! Don’t you dare schedule 3 wmt tour events! Fools! All of you!
Rob p, you are correct that the division has to stop as we are all Americans. The only problem is as long as their is a party system and electoral college that determines the outcome of an election there will always be division, it will never end and will continue long after you and I are dead.
I will say this as far as NASCAR purses and fees, yes NASCAR has stopped posting PAYOUT for each race on the race rundown, Yes Haters like Phil A. will say when they did you can add up the money and it doesnt add up to the POSTED purse but JUST ME has posted several entry blanks over the last few seasons in which the purse payout plus contingencies are posted for each race, BOTTOM LINE IS if NASCAR IS STEALING MONEY from tracks and teams, HOW HAS THE WMT lasted 35 years anddddddddd kept MANY TEAMS ON THE ROSTER which NOOOOOOOO other series, MRS, ROC, TRI TRACK has done????? Now YES OPENS have had and will continue to have an affect on it but all the HATERS noise doesnt ALWAYS TELLL THE FULL STORY
Point taken 2020. Tracks and series do all that work. Talking to teams, coordinating with other tracks and series, budgeting and countless other details to put a schedule together. It’s risky just dong it in the condition we now face. Implying it doesn’t have meaning because of exigent circumstances is not fair to the managements doing all the work.
It’s getting real now.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-vaccine-distribution-idUSKBN2851EL
-initial 6.4 million doses mid-December nation wide
-21 million health care workers first in line. Then 3 million in long term care facilities, Pecking order continues with 87 million essential workers, 100 million with at risk medical conditions and we healthy geezers at 53 million.
-production ramping up into 2021 with doses widely available for everyone by June.
Reality check- you can’t spend the greater part of 2020 calling people you don’t agree with horrible names. Attribute every problem that exists to the person they support. Then all of a sudden when your guy wins and pandemic relief that you said was not likely coming anytime soon say we should all come together. Actually you can say it but it rings hollow.
We will likely always be divided and it has nothing to do with the popular vote, electoral college, the two party system, mail in ballots or voting machines. Talk radio, cable TV, social media where the most ridiculous conspiracies and misinformation can have equal footing with truth pretty much assures that.
The proof is now….the pandemic. We voted for getting sick and dying with millions after 9 months still believing it’s a “scamdemic” rather then universally agree to the most modest behavioral changes.
Over many years, the Nascar MT has represented stability and quality in modifided racing. A part of this history is that, yes, Nascar likely earned a profit with respect to the Tour. During an unprecedented pandemic, it is not surprising that tracks like Thompson (i.e. the current promoters there) have decided (for now, at least) to “cut out the middle man”. We’ll see how it all works out.
Note – my guess is that $5K to win will not be enough draw Matt H. to the Thompson mod series mid-week events.
While these open shows seem to the new taste of the day, I believe they will implode on themselves. Why is that ? Although NASCAR seems to be a pain in the butt and expensive on the surface, it is a bed of consistency and competitors know they have a safe and level playing field, Yes it is a royal pain to inspect cars multiple times over a race weekend but it creates a level of trust that competitors feel comfort in. Without the resources that NASCAR has these fly by night open shows with limited tech will eventually fall pray to finger pointing and “he’s a cheater” BS and of course the ever present poison of the social media .
Purses : The Thompson 300 will pay 20K to win, so did the Musket (give or take) but the Musket paid WAY WAY better through the field. How many of ya’ll have actually read an OEB to see how much is really paid out to the top 20 in points at every event ?
Safety : NASCAR mandates many safety protocols and rules so drivers and crews can play as safe as possible at every event, tracks and facilities are inspected prior to signing and contracts to race, driver suits, helmets and all FI equipment are inspected EVERY race and so on. Badly wrecked cars are impounded, inspected, recorded and critiqued for future improvements. Pit road is another bad situation for this conversation, How many of you have been on Pit Road, I mean out on pit road during a flurry of pit stops ? It’s scary at best, especially at Stafford. So again NASCAR mandates many safety protocols and rules to keep the game as safe as possible. Do these “Open Show” promoters do that ? NO they don’t….Will they mandate fire PPE for the fuelers ? Will they mandate helmets and suits for the tire changers ? I don’ know…..But what if something tragic were to happen ? Like the F1 crash last weekend and more than half the crews were wearing street clothes on pit road.
NASCAR has been the longest running modified group for a reason, actually many reasons.
Hey idiots, you don’t know who you are.
See how that works?
Doug said:
“I thought Arute said the sanctioning fees paid to NASCAR is the main problem, I don’t think he mentioned the purse paid to the drivers.”
Go to the 46:40 mark in the Bottom Shot podcast with Jackie Arute Phil A. Jackie never mentioned fees. He referred to “NASCAR mandated exorbitant purse money for the most part a lackluster Whelan Modified Tour event” .
That being the case does that change any of the observations you made?
thanks for taking the time to point that out and to reply like a gentlemen, much appreciated..
no, i feel that Arute meant the overall cost to nascar (purse plus fees) is just too expensive, so it doenst change my opinion and/or observations…
wmass said:
I will say this as far as NASCAR purses and fees, yes NASCAR has stopped posting PAYOUT for each race on the race rundown, Yes Haters like Phil A. will say when they did you can add up the money and it doesnt add up to the POSTED purse but JUST ME has posted several entry blanks over the last few seasons in which the purse payout plus contingencies are posted for each race, BOTTOM LINE IS if NASCAR IS STEALING MONEY from tracks and teams, HOW HAS THE WMT lasted 35 years
whoever said NASCAR “is stealing money”? certainly not me. i just pointed out that that “posted awards” was a much higher amount the drivers actually received and the difference was the sanctioning fees. i never said that they were stealing, i just pointed out the fact that NASCAR included their fees as “posted awards”. how you inferred from that “nascar is stealing” i have no idea, and i DO NOT think NASCAR ever stole a penny.
as far as being a hater, thats ridiculous. i dont hate nascar at all. i disagree with some of the things they do and some of their rules. i feel the same way about every sport i follow. i also disagree with every one of my friends and family on certain things. to conclude i “HATE” them because of that is just silly.
spec-tre,
great points on NASCAR in regards to inspection and safety. reminding me (us?) that there is something that NASCAR provides in exchange for their sanctioning fees. i’m a financial guy by nature and tend to focus on the money aspect of things. your point is well taken, thanks for posting it and it does change my opinion somewhat.
to just call someone a HATER that disagrees doesnt promote constructive conversation. spec-tre provided intelligent reasons, and i thank him for it!
Apparently I need to repeat this:
“The guys I know run NASCAR for three reasons:
1. Safety
2. Rules
3. They pay the purse”
The sanction fee pays the point fund. It all goes to the owners. That’s why the point fund has been north of $250,000 the last few years. The K&N was over $500,000 in 2018. I’m sure 2020 will be less. You can ask Justin next week. The ceremony is virtual so maybe folks can tune in if they have a password and watch. It costs a lot of money to host a WMT race but that’s because Nascar funnels those funds back to the owners. It isn’t the ponzi scheme some think.
Not all purses are secret. Oswego paid $12,000 in 2019. The Musket was $20,000. The winners at Wall and RH cleared $10,000. I think every race paid at least $10,000 total. So when people say Nascar doesn’t pay it is 100% nonsense. The 2 team got a heafty check for their last championship.
Doug, I watched the podcast with Bugsy. Jackie’s nephew stated Jackie hasn’t been involved with the track operations in at least 10 yrs. He is due his opinion but the track still booked three shows for 2021. So…there you go.
Hey Crazy, flash the bat signal twice if you are ok. We all miss your voice of reason.
The interview with Carl Bugsy Stevens. Yes indeed. That was something. I’d be interested to read more reaction on that podcast for sure. It seems to have gone unnoticed for the most part so far.
Yes, Jackie has not been on the management team at Stafford for ages. We all pretty much knew that didn’t we? That’s not the point.. He’s an Arute. Part of the inner circle and is a nationally known motorsport guy. If you’re saying his opinion doesn’t mean anything I wouldn’t agree with that at all.
Moreover while I nor anyone else outside the principles can know Stafford cut a non traditional, favorable deal with Nascar, under the circumstances it seems that it has a high probability. We want that don’t we?
Jackie gave that big Cheshire cat like smile knowing exactly what he was about to do, elevated Tri Track and diminished the NWMT as “lackluster”. Lackluster, are you kidding me?. There was a time when that was simply not done. The fact he did it and the unflappable Paul seemed not particularly perturbed by it was a clear sign of a power shift in my view.
It was my take and I’m pretty convinced it’s got legs. NASCAR diehard’s may view my dot connecting as a loss of status and power for NASCAR and that was not the intent. If tracks can cut deals that make races more viable then it means there will be more NWMT races which is what we all want. Well most anyway.
Terrific synopsis Spec-tre on what NASCAR brings to local races. Best I’ve seen in this forum although I can’t agree that opens ” will implode on themselves”. The issues Phil A highlighted are real if not every detail. The greatest odds are not that the market will conform to NASCAR. NASCAR will move to adjust to the market and in my view that process is happening now and it’s a good thing.
I’m guessing with less WMT events in New England and a few more west and south of here, there may be a demographic shift due to travel and expense. There may be a few less CT, MA, & NH teams running the WMT full time, staying local and running the Opens. Meanwhile you might see more NY, NJ, & PA teams taking on the Tour full time.
JD says:
The sanction fee pays the point fund. It all goes to the owners. That’s why the point fund has been north of $250,000 the last few years.
interesting, but why do the tracks get the financial burden of funding the points championship money? isnt the tour sponsored? the WHELEN modified tour, right? Whelen probably pays NASCAR a pretty penny for that. 7 figures plus?
in 2019 there were 17 races. at 25-30k in fees per race, that brings the total in fees collected to be close to 500k. so NASCAR only passed half of the sanctioning fees on to the drivers points fund! also, all the $$ NASCAR collects from each team as they purchase NASCAR approved parts and NASCAR takes it cut adds up to quite a tidy sum, im sure!!
so, despite all the $$ coming in, NASCAR passes the points fund bill along to the tracks? if im a track, why not keep the $$ that id pay NASCAR to sanction a WMT race, run my own open shows, and pay the drivers a point fund directly?
You can’t do your own math based on your own numbers. I said over $250,000. May have been much higher. The top 20 WMT owners are paid a % of the point fund. The Champ gets 20% down to 2% for 20th. The entire pot equals 100%. There are also in season payouts to factor in. There might be some admin and travel fees that Nascar takes but it’s small.
The tracks aren’t going to pay a point fund to the owners. They would rather pocket the money instead because they don’t want to pay a point fund. That’s why the tracks are complaining now. Nascar ensures that doesn’t happen for one of their races. Their car owners get a piece of the pie. You notice the open shows charge just as much for general admission as a WMT show? The tracks aren’t paying nearly as much for an open show but they aren’t passing the savings on to you or me. That’s business of course but don’t play the victim card on behalf of the tracks. The tracks will continue to charge tour prices for open shows as long as fans will pay them. They will only pay them long term if the big names are showing up to race. Which brings us back to promotion.
For the record, TT requests race money paid upfront too. I think that’s standard in racing. Protects the drivers.
My understanding is that the WMT’s champ was getting around $80,000 a few years ago. I guess you will have to dial up DC to verify.